Friday, September 25, 2009

Reason, Logic and Atheism

I just a read a statement made by an atheist where he said,

“I reject Christianity because I refuse to believe anything that might not be true.”

As with all atheists, he prefaced this by describing how logical and rational he is.

Too bad that his lack of insight prevents him from seeing that as an atheist he IS believing something that might not be true.

30 comments:

Gorth Satana said...

Where did you read an atheist saying “I reject Christianity because I refuse to believe anything that might not be true.” ?

I googled it and the only site with that exact phrase is this post.

I'm not calling you a liar but since you live a magical fantasy world of make-believe, I thought I better check.

JD Curtis said...

"Where did you read an atheist saying “I reject Christianity because I refuse to believe anything that might not be true.”

That sort of sums it up. Doesnt it?

Gorth Satana said...

Is this your way of admitting you live a magical fantasy world of make-believe?

JD Curtis said...

The thing is, Copernicus, what else might not be true?

Gorth Satana said...

"Too bad that his lack of insight prevents him from seeing that as an atheist he IS believing something that might not be true."

Atheism is a lack of belief. A lack of belief in the gods.
I'm not an atheist myself but here's the bit you can quote from me:
I reject Christianity because it is stupid and possibly harmful and almost certainly untrue.

Gorth Satana said...

Damn, forgot to preface that with a statement about how logical and rational I am.

Ok.

I'm reasonably logical and rational... for a creature made out of meat.

Makarios said...

Hey Gorth, it’s a paraphrase.
He said “I reject Christianity.” He said, “I refuse to believe anything that might not be true.”
He said, “Christianity is not true.”

I said . . . blah, blah, blah

I believe that I got the gist of what he was trying to say.
=============

“Atheism is a lack of belief. A lack of belief in the gods.”

Yes, it’s a lack of belief but that lack of belief does not exist in isolation. It leads to other beliefs like Richard Dawkins who says that ‘Everything evolved from nothing.’ ‘Inanimate gases evolved.’ I mean, come on!
===============

“I reject Christianity because it is stupid and possibly harmful and almost certainly untrue.”

Why do you think that it’s untrue?

Gorth Satana said...

Why?
I mean, come on!

His Lordship said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Makarios said...

Sure it does. As an atheist you're believing one or more of the following:
. There can be an infinite regress of cause.

. Matter can be eternal.

. Matter can create itself

. Nothing created eveything

. The material infinite does exist

To date, science tells us that none of these are possible, i.e., Not True, yet atheists, if they are to remain true to "nothing outside of nature exists" must of necessity fall back onto one or more of the above to account for the existence of the universe.

Gorth Satana said...

LOL, oh Makarios! You so crazy!

All atheism is is a lack of belief in gods.

How many times do they have to tell you that?

Gorth Satana said...

and it sounds like a fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, to boot.

Flute said...

and it sounds like a fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, to boot.

When a "fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses" is exposed, a dishonest arguer will often argue "there are no other alternatives" or try and shift the burden, typicality with a phrase like "so what's YOUR alternative?".

Makarios said...

And because you deny the existence of God you are forced to rule out the only explanation of the origin of the universe that fits the evidence. Therefore you are also forced to accept one or more of the following:

. There CAN be an infinite regress of cause.

. Matter CAN be eternal.

. Matter CAN create itself

. Nothing created eveything

. The material infinite DOES exist

Gorth Satana said...

Flute wins!

His Lordship said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Makarios said...

“Ok, what is the cause of God?”

Are you serious? Ok, please ask yourself,

“When did an infinite / eternal Being begin to exist?”

What caused an infinite / eternal to begin to exist?”

Can you see the problem with these questions?
===============

“We know from experimental physics that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form.”

Once it’s been created, that’s true. Prior to the singularity, there was nothing, no matter / energy, no space, no time, no laws of physics / science because there was nothing natural in existence, including energy.
==========

"Nothing created eveything."

So what did? Something brought this into being and it wasn't anything natural.
================

“Personally, I wonder if maybe the Universe always existed.”

Except we know from science that it can’t. The physical infinite does not and cannot exist. This has been confirmed by the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin Theorem. This established and reluctantly accepted theorem states that ANY expanding universe, be it theoretical such as Oscillating universe - Baby universes - Multi verses - The Cyclic Ekpyrotic Scenario - The Chaotic inflationary universe - Brane-cosmology - Inflationary multi-verse - Bubble universes floating in a sea of false vacuum - The many worlds hypothesis - The black hole hypothesis - Quantum gravity models - Vacuum fluctuation models -

or real such as ours, MUST have a beginning, a definitive space / time boundary, a singularity and Big Bang Creation Event.

Being someone who has studied the subject enough to rule out the Big Bang, I thought you would have known this stuff.

Reality is, because of overwhelming scientific evidence, most atheists do grudgingly admit that the universe did indeed have a beginning. Unfortunately for atheists, it can be said with absolute confidence that no cosmogonic model has been:
. As repeatedly verified in its predictions,
. As corroborated by attempts at its falsification,
. As concordant with empirical discoveries, and
. As philosophically coherent as the Standard Big Bang Creation Event Model.
==============

Christian Science? No sir, this would be the scientific method of inquiry that we've all come to know and love.

Gorth Satana said...

Flute already won this one but you seem to be making an argument from ignorance. People sometimes call this "The God of the Gaps".

Makarios said...

Atheists are above being asked? Atheists can just say, "No it isn't what you think and I don't have to tell you what I think." Pfft!

If you disagree with "Nothing created everything," then which one(s) of these do you agree with?

. There CAN be an infinite regress of cause.

. Matter CAN be eternal.

. Matter CAN create itself

. Nothing created eveything

. The material infinite DOES exist

And if you DO agree with any of them, and since atheists only believe what is backed up with scientific evidence, would you please direct me to the evidence that leads you to this belief?

Gorth Satana said...

Have you heard of the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses?

Makarios said...

"exhaustive hypotheses?"

They aren't exhaustive when you ignore or disallow a whole category.

Gorth Satana said...

Sounds like you don't know what the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses is.

Makarios said...

Sounds like you're embarrassed to admit what you believe.

Gorth Satana said...

This from someone who, ignoring all science and evidence, believes in the "Global flood of Noah"!

LOL!

Have a great day worshiping your God of the Gaps. But the gaps are getting smaller so you have to go back further and further as mankind gets more knowledgeable. See how far you have to go for gaps now! You god is almost finished!

His Lordship said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Makarios said...

so what's your point?

My point is that when it comes to the origin of matter / universe we have two options:

Matter is eternal, or

An external or supranatural cause is eternal.

You've already acknowledged that matter cannot be eternal. But you also rule out an external to nature cause.

If you know of other options I'd be happy to entertain them here.

His Lordship said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Makarios said...

"I don't believe in any cause, internal or external to nature."

Wow! Every time I think that I've heard the greatest height that people will go to so as to maintain their atheism, I'm confronted with yet another level.

This one is like I’m hearing, “I don’t care why you say 2 + 2 = 4. It has nothing to do with the Peano axioms for standard arithmetic. We may or may not find out someday why 2 + 2 = 4 but if and when we do find out, it won’t be Peano axioms.”

His Lordship said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
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