Friday, September 4, 2009

Jesus and Love - pt.1

It always gives me a giggle when people say something like, “Jesus was all about love.”

And I think, ‘What Jesus are you talking about?’ There is more talk about eternal punishment in the New Testament than there is in the Old. Jesus talked more about hell than He did about heaven. Yes, one of Jesus’ characteristics, perhaps even His main characteristic was love, but He was fantastically serious about fulfilling God’s plan for you and me. And come hell or high water, or the deaths of millions of people, that plan WILL be carried out to completion, and the dominion of hell will not be able to stand against it.

I’m going to do a bit of a series that entails one of my favourite passages of Scripture. John chapter 21.

Prior to this account, Jesus had been betrayed by Judas. Peter had promised Jesus that even if all the other disciples ran away he, Peter would never abandon Jesus. In fact, Peter announced, he was ready to die with and for Jesus and His cause. I don’t know what tone of voice Jesus used, but He told Peter, in effect, “Are you kidding me? Before the night is out, you will deny that you even know Me; and not just once but three times.” Well, Jesus was crucified, He was buried and He rose from the dead, just as He had told them would happen. Peter did denying knowing Jesus and he had gone into hiding. The news of the tomb being empty had brought the disciples out of hiding and appearances by Jesus had left the disciples in a quandary. Remember, based on Old Testament prophecy, the disciples were still thinking that Jesus was going to lead a revolt against Rome and establish Israel to its former glory. Ok, enough of the preamble.

As this account unfolds, Jesus and Peter are once more going to be centre stage. If you’ve ever disappointed a best friend, as well as yourself, you might understand a little bit of what Peter was going through. As John tells us, Peter and his friends were coming back from a night of fishing when they saw a person sitting on the shore. The guy had a fire going and He was cooking some fish. Eventually, as they got closer to shore, the people in the boat with Peter recognised the person as Jesus. Peter, forgetting his humiliating emotional, personal and spiritual defeat dived into the water and made his way to the Lord. As I stated, Jesus was cooking some fish and the disciples brought some of their catch to make a meal of it. They spent some time, their bellies full, lying on the beach by the fire. Life was good again. Any time now, or so they believed, Jesus would become their king. He’d drive out the Romans which would usher in the Messianic kingdom.

Then Jesus turned to Peter and, motioning with a sweep of His hand to indicate the boats and the crew and the friends lying on the sand, Jesus said, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than all of these?”


salvage said...

>Jesus had been betrayed by Judas

No he wasn't. It was all preordained right? The whole plan of your god sacrificing himself to himself right? So Judas was just playing a role that he had no control over. Furthermore I was never really clear on how Judas betrayed him. Was Jesus hiding from the authorities? Like a common criminal? Wouldn't he be eager to make his sacrifice and fulfill his role? Shouldn't he have march up to Pilate and said something like "Don't bother with the hand-washing, you're just another cog in my my / my god's machine to stop me / my god from killing everybody again. Despite the fact that he said he wouldn't do that sort of thing anymore."

Let's say Judas had go to Jesus and said "Hey dude, they're coming for ya, yeah I ratted you out, sorry about that but now let's get out of here!" and Jesus had run away, would that have been better?

Makarios said...

Do you think that knowing how something is going to happen is the same as making it happen?

salvage said...

If you're a god; yes.

Makarios said...


Glen20 said...


Makarios said...
"Is this a joke? You really can't get this? You can't see that if you already know the answer, you no longer have the choice of how to answer?"
August 17, 2009 1:58:00 PM PDT

Makarios said...

I know that one of my kids is going to fight with another one of my kids today. Does that mean that I caused the fight to happen?

Glen20 said...

"I know that one of my kids"

You don't "know", you believe.

salvage said...


Because you claim that your god is an omnipotent / omnipresent being of time and space yes?

So. How could such a creature not know every single cause and effect?

Except when Satan slithers into a snake suit and sneaks into God's garden to screw with His stuff.

Or when he was asking Cain where Able was at.

I'm surprised Cain didn't say "I don't know, what am I God?" but perhaps sarcasm and irony hadn't been invented yet.

See this is the doublethink I've been talking about, your god is all powerful but suddenly becomes limited and flawed at the exact wrong times.

And as has been pointed out you don't know any such thing, you can only estimate based on past and current data merged with your intuition and reason.

Gods do not need such things, they already know before it happens.


a) Your god isn't as powerful as you make him out to be

b) Your god is all powerful but gets his kicks screwing with us

c) It's all made up because it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Again, c) would be a good choice.

Makarios said...

“Because you claim that your god is an omnipotent / omnipresent being of time and space yes?”

So you think that KNOWING that Judas would betray Jesus is the same as CAUSING him to betray Jesus?

"Or when he was asking Cain where Able was at."

Are you sayig that you never ask your kids, “So what happened here?” even when you know what happened?

“your god is all powerful but suddenly becomes limited and flawed at the exact wrong times.”

Are you saying that because God CAN do something that means that He HAS to do something? Are you saying that because God COULD stop Judas from betraying Jesus, you think that means that He HAD to stop Judas from betraying Jesus?

There is something seriously weird about the way atheists process information. ================