When an intelligent person willfully abandons reason and begins to posit finite infinities, causeless beginnings and beginningless beginnings, I know that I’m dealing with someone involved in a desperate attempt to avoid a philosophically unacceptable conclusion: Creator God exists.
When an intelligent person willfully abandons classical historical scholarship and begins to deny known and knowable facts of history, but only as they apply to the person of Jesus, I know that I’m dealing with someone who is confronted with a philosophically unacceptable conclusion: Creator God exists.
When an intelligent person willfully and falsely claims to follow whatever ethical standard is currently in vogue and calls that a reasonable way to live, I know that I’m dealing with someone involved in a desperate, fearful attempt to avoid a philosophically unacceptable conclusion: Creator God exists.
When a intelligent person goes in search of ever more complicated solutions, abandoning one after another, after another, after another, not because of new evidence but because of a need to avoid the conclusion indicated by current evidence, and when that person never returns to a simple solution that coincides with current knowledge and common sense, I know that I’ve encountered an individual who has been confronted with a philosophically unacceptable conclusion: Creator God exists.
That is sad and that is why I’m not an atheist.
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Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’
In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36.
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The
Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.
The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.
The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’. In the English language He is ‘God’, or ‘ALLAH’.
QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE
Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified.
Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).
Surah Fussilat:
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]
Hmm, the Qur'an it is! The Bible is dead, Long live the Qur'an!
>At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat,
And you're wrong right from the get-go. The Greeks had figured out that the world was round a thousands years before the rise of Islam as had most sea-faring peoples of the time. They also noticed that the sun wouldn't be in the same place at the same time in different places. From there they worked out the math and realized that the earth could not possibly be any other shape.
0 for 1
>The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light.
Once again, the ideas of light being reflected were understood, they had mirrors back then.
0 for 2
>Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water.
Yeah, how much water do you drink in a day? How long can you live without water? Howabout cows, chickens and swallows?
See the ancients noticed that life really needs to consume water so they correctly assume that we're made of a lot of water. Didn't exactly take an Einstein to figure that one out. Once again the Greeks talked about the elements and life's make up long before the Koran ever was.
The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation.
No it doesn't. I've heard this before, it's simply not true. The Koran's knowledge is exactly at par with its time of writing.
But please, provide an example if I'm wrong.
>Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.
Well Bacon was wrong about a lot of things and this is one of them. In fact most scientist are atheists, something like 90%. Einstein, Hawkins and Darwin all expanded our knowledge of the universe in their short time than all of the world's religions combined over a 1,000 years.
>Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God.
They don't have to, there's nothing to eliminate.
The Quran is FILLED with prophecies that have ALL come true.
Qur'an is perfect and unchanged.
The proof of Allah existances is that without Him it is impossible to prove anything. Without His unchanging nature, science would be useless.
Don't hide from what He wants you to do.
There is no god but God.
Yeah.
You're a dining room table. I'm not going to talk to you anymore.
It's amazing how much more of a grip Islam can have on the human mind.
I mean the whole strapping dynamite to their silly asses and blowing up is pretty hard to top in terms of devotion.
I always like to think because it's the youngest of the monotheism that it tries that much harder.
It's fascinating to compare Islam's origins with that of Mormonism. It's like Smith read the history and thought "Heyyyyy".
Hey John, does Allah love me? And if so, where in the Qur'an does it tell me that.
You are a needy thing aren't you? You should try and develop an "inner-Jesus".
Spoken like a small child who lies to himself 'my parents do not love me even after all they have done. I will hide and cry rather than submit to them!'
God Love, hubb, is mentioned many times in Quran. God loves those one strive to do good. God loves those who trust Him. God loves those who follow Him. And more.
One of His Names is "LOVING" 85:14
Does Allah love his enemies?
"When an intelligent person willfully and falsely claims to follow whatever ethical standard is currently in vogue and calls that a reasonable way to live, I know that I’m dealing with someone involved in a desperate, fearful attempt to avoid a philosophically unacceptable conclusion: Creator God exists."
The ethical standard that you claim as your own as a Christian is not the same one that a Christian of a thousand, a hundred, or even fifty years ago would hold. When was the last time you stoned someone to death? I guess you are avoiding a philosophically unacceptable conclusion.
The ethical standard that you claim as your own as a Christian is not the same one that a Christian of a thousand, a hundred, or even fifty years ago would hold. When was the last time you stoned someone to death?
Could I trouble you to provide an example of Christians stoning someone to death? Then we can examine it. The first Christian martyr after the resurrection (Stephen) was stoned to death by Jews but I'm having trouble finding examples of Christians stoning anyone.
John, could you provide an example of the whole "stoning" thing please? (On the part of Christians)
It's fucking hilarious how you guys (JD and Mak) have obvious issues with John's islamic preaching, yet can't understand where atheists are coming from.
John is an example of someone who believes as devoutly in islam probably as much as you do in christianity.
He has just as much 'evidence' to support his claims as you do yours.
Yet you automatically have the urge to discredit him.
Salvage yet again has a spot-on rebuttal to John's initial claims. No doubt the pair of you agree with him on the reasons for rebuttal.
Yet if Salvage were to present rebuttals for the claims of the bible, (which he has done) that are just as good, all of a sudden neither of you are interested, and proceed to do what John is doing right now.
Hilarious.
John does Allah love his enemies?
Did you know that in the Bible, the word love is used almost 400 times and 3/4's of those times it's talking about God's love for us - for you. THAT is the God that Christians understand.
John, does Allah love his enemies?
Has Allah provided a means whereby His enemies can have salvation?
'My god is better than you're god, Nah nah nah nah nah'
Pathetic.
It was funny, back when Islam swept across the Middle East, Persia and North Africa it caused such a crisis in faith for the Christians of Europe. How could their god let this happen? They wondered.
And on the Arab side they thought "Well Allah must be on our side, look all the ass we're kicking! Let's check out Spain!"
Yet neither side won and in the end the Islamic Empire shriveled up to what we have now and it's only strength is oil, despots and fanaticism.
Wonder what they'll be like when the sands run dry?
John can speak about whatever he wants to. I have no problem with him discussing his version of theism that, IMHO, is somewhat of a Christian apostasy that puts WAY too much emphasis on their one prophet.
>that puts WAY too much emphasis on their one prophet.
ahahahaa!
Funniest thing you've ever said.
But that's one of the other interesting things about theism, they prefer other flavors to atheism by a wide margin. For instance there are cases where Islam in power would tolerate the other "peoples of the book" but would cut the heads off atheists without a second thought.
Or obviously a first one.
But sorry JD if your god and religion is real and true than so is every other one as you all have the exact same amount of evidence.
That's why it's far more sensible to call bullshit on all of 'em.
sorry JD if your god and religion is real and true than so is every other one
Illogical, that is if you know anything about religions. Jesus Christ is part of the Triune God. I'm sure if "John" could chime in right now, he would have some very definate opinions on the matter. It wouldnt stand to reason that we could both be right concerning the divinity of Jesus. It is a possibility that we could both be wrong, but we couldnt both be correct, thus the belief systems concerning God arent the same.
Hey JD, did you watch the video where The Pope had a woman thrown in jail for saying mean things about him? What do you think of that? You thought Galileo was funny so I guess you must have thought that hysterical.
Ya, speaking of John, where's you go dude? Still looking up passages where Allah says he loves his enemies. Or is it that hating your enemies carries a huge appeal to your character so Islam is a natural choice?
What video are you referring to Salvage?
Oh JD I suspected you don't really read replies to your posts that disprove what you say. It's how your delusion protects itself but let's see if we can't pin this down.
I said:
that time the Pope was arrested and threatened with death for saying the sun revolves around the Earth?
You replied
What? Galileo? I get gigged by atheists if I cite a source from the 1990's. Could you keep it at least a little more current than 350 years ago?
So then I posted a link to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CsFxVPDjKs
The episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit! that got the Catholics very upset because it made all sorts of crazy accusations about the Vatican like how it protected child-rapists for the last fifty years or so.
It also told the story of an Italian woman who was thrown in jail for saying mean things about the Pope.
You asked for a modern example and I gave you one and so naturally you ignored it.
The beating heart of delusion; won't even look at anything that may bring it into question.
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