I found this blog with 100 atheist quotes. Here is one of them.
If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which He has inflicted upon men, He would kill Himself. – Alexandre Dumas
In 58 years of living, I doubt that I've ever heard any statement so glaringly ignorant as that one. God volunteered to live this life. One of the things that God was proving is that no one is exempt from God’s plan to use suffering as a means to an end; not even God Himself. Jesus, our example and character goal, came to earth knowing in advance that He would be abused, misunderstood, mistreated, rejected, insulted, betrayed and ultimately have humanity do our absolute worst to Him. God, in the form of Jesus, came to earth with the expressed purpose of experiencing His own wrath as is required by the nature of sin, “For the wages of sin, the consequences of sin, the result of sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23. God came to earth to show that He does not exist outside of this plan that seems so difficult for us to accept. God came to earth to rescue us from our stupid decision to try to live our lives without Him. He came to give us a second chance at paradise.
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>humanity do our absolute worst to Him
A beating followed by crucifixion is most certainly not "our absolute" worst. There are serial killer victims who suffered more and longer.
And they didn't get to come back to life three days later to say goodbye to the people who cared about them and then fly off to Heaven to rule with himself/father.
Good night salvage. Don't forget to say your prayers.
Well that certainly rebuts my point that Jesus didn't suffer as much in comparison to millions of millions of people who aren't demigods.
This is of course another way you protect your delusion; ignore the inconsistencies and ill-logic of your myths.
Are you telling me that a day of beating and crucifixion is really "the absolute worst"? Really?
I'm saying that you don't have a hope in hell of comprehending what your Creator did for you, what He underwent for you so that you could, if you wanted, spend eternity in the presence of perfect Love.
>I'm saying that you don't have a hope in hell of comprehending what your Creator did for you,
You're right, because none of it makes a lick of sense. This whole "god sacrificing himself to himself so he wouldn't unleash his wrath on a creation that is behaving exactly as he must have known they'd behave" isn't exactly reasonable or logical thus impossible to understand or accept.
How many people do you think the Romans nailed up? Was their suffering more or less than what Jesus went through? Some lasted three days, some were nailed upside down. Not even the worse the Romans would do.
Ya, like I said.
'Sup Sal
Your forgetting something about the differences of all those others you've mentioned, victims of serial killers and other people who were crucified. Part of the greatness of Christ's suffering and greatness is that those others didn't have a choice.
Imagine some Christian calling you a liar and then spits on you, you'd probably kick his ass(if you could)? Christ chose not to do that and he was the only one that truly could have.
He didn't because he wanted you to live with him forever.
Part of Christs suffering was he had the weight of the whole worlds souls through out all time on his shoulders, tho he came to save, he's been rejected ever since. Yet he's still patient, not wanting any to perish.
Peace be with you, feeno
>is that those others didn't have a choice.
Hmmm let's see... one day of beating and pain followed by a three day nap, resurrection and then off to Heaven to rule and live for ever...
Yup, I'd take it, I'd choose to do it.
So big whoop, your god had one bad day and an infinity of great ones.
Wow, some sacrifice.
>Imagine some Christian calling you a liar and then spits on you, you'd probably kick his ass(if you could)?
Well not if I were a liar who deserved to be spit upon but since my lies don't raise that kind of rancor (they're mostly about my Guitar Hero scores) it's not something that is likely to happen. Nor would I be likely to be violent even if it did happen. Not a fan of the stuff, that's more your god's thing.
>Christ chose not to do that and he was the only one that truly could have.
Nonsense, The Amish, certain far Eastern religions and others turn cheeks all the time. That's how China was able to stroll into Tibet.
And why didn't Jesus turn his cheeks to the money changers in the Temple I wonder? Why didn't the followers of Jesus do likewise? If it had been all about the peace and love Christianity wouldn't have been able to claw its way to the top of the Roman Empire.
You do know that Constantine had to fight two bloody Roman civil wars to make his new religion the primary one for the Empire?
Speaking of wars do you know what the 30 Years War was all about? Do you know what the French mobs did to the poor Huguenots? Hey what was the church's stance on the conquest of South America and what to do with the pesky natives who had this crazy idea that the land and gold were theirs?
>He didn't because he wanted you to live with him forever.
Creepy. No, while I have every intention of living forever I do not want to spend it with your crazy god.
>Part of Christs suffering was he had the weight of the whole worlds souls through out all time on his shoulders,
He's a god, he creates universes, big deal.
>tho he came to save, he's been rejected ever since.
Er... no. Well in the early days the Romans weren't very keen on new religions but to be fair they didn't like anything new. They respected the Jews because of the age of their religion but Christians? Pah! Your god needed to be at least a thousand years old to get props from the Empire.
But once Christianity became the religion rejecting it wasn't an option for most. The remaining Pagan religions were converted or their practitioners killed. Christianity ruled the West pretty much until the American Revolution, the beginning of secular government.
And then by an amazing coincidence things started getting better! Weird huh? How when countries were ruled by your god disease and famine and war rode all over Europe but then the Enlightenment and a few hundred years later we're walking on the Moon and living longer and happier lives. Why didn't all this great stuff happen when it was your god in charge? Why did it take a clear division of church and state and science to come along before any of it happened?
>Yet he's still patient, not wanting any to perish.
Well in the old days your god loved perishing the hell out of people. Remember when he got all mad and flooded the whole planet? Guess your god has grown up a little, shame he didn't have the self-control then he has now huh?
Damn nice response,
feeno 0
Sal 1
talk to ya later,
Peace out, feeno
Feeno, if you genuinely concede defeat at the hands of salvage, then why do you still believe?
You basically just accepted the ridicule of all your points, which to be honest, you should.
Evertthing you said was rather daft and salvage did a good job of showing this.
So....
Do you just not care? Just keep on believing anyway despite how absurd it all sounds?
Greetings Makarios. Since you came to look at my blog, I decided to return the favor and see for myself what you had to say.
Honestly, the whole idea that a supreme being took the body of man to live in the world among mortals is taken directly from Greek mythology, which predates Christianity by hundreds of years. Right there, that is a red flag that tells me that elements from the story are likely to have been plagiarized from an earlier fable.
But if that's not sufficient to at least put some doubt in your mind about the veracity of your Bible, consider this: there is zero evidence that Jesus was a real person at all. As a matter of fact, the first Christians often fought each other over the issue; some believed that Jesus had been a man, and some believed that he was a pure divine being, yet others believed that he was both at the same time. Seriously, if he had been a real person, why would there be such controversy? Wouldn't the early Christians all agree with each other at least on the existence of their savior?
Where are his bones? -Please don't tell me his bones ascended to Heaven. - The airplane was not invented until the brothers Wright.
If he was tried by a Roman Governor, why is there no record of the event in roman archives, or no mention of him by contemporary roman historians? I invite you to research the topic of the "Jesus Myth"
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm
I know you probably have invested years of your life into your spiritual beliefs, and letting go is hard. I don't mean to offend your beliefs, I just want to show you that the basis for your beliefs is far from bulletproof.
http://www.godisimaginary.com/
“there is zero evidence that Jesus was a real person at all.”
Nor the holocaust either I suppose
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As a matter of fact, the first Christians often fought each other over the issue; some believed that Jesus had been a man, and some believed that he was a pure divine being, yet others believed that he was both at the same time. Seriously, if he had been a real person, why would there be such controversy?
Tell me something genius. If Jesus never existed, who were they arguing about?
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If he was tried by a Roman Governor, why is there no record of the event in roman archives”
It is. In the “Lives of the Caesars.”
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I don't mean to offend your beliefs,
So you’re also a liar!
Sir, do not confuse my attempt at remaining civil with being a liar. Just because I am willing to debate religion vs. atheism does not mean that I mean to offend. Yes, I do think your beliefs are based with a few misguided assumptions, but what have I said that can be construed as a lie?
About the Holocaust; There is plenty of evidence of that. I visited a concentration camp in Germany. I saw photos of corpses in mass graves. THAT is evidence. Where is the evidence for the existence of Jesus? Until irrefutable evidence is presented, I will hold the opinion that he is nothing but a literary fabrication. A fictional character.
That is what the early Christians were arguing about: a fictional character; the same way people today watch television and discuss the adventures of Harry Potter, or whoever the flavor of the week is. Believing in Harry Potter or debating details of his adventures does not make Harry Potter exist.
Here is a link to the Lives of the Caesars. I didn't find any mention of Jesus in there, or even of Pontius Pilate for that matter. Can you help me find it if you remember which chapter it was in?
http://books.google.com/books?id=UrGdu3CwL2IC&dq=lives+of+the+caesars&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=9jW0SvWrHs7AlAeBiqWFDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Good night Sir.
HL - I give reference to it here:
http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-would-that-be.html
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