Friday, December 11, 2009

"That’s Embarrassing!"

I began this series with:
. “Nothing Did It” http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/nothing-did-it.html
. “Atheism of the Gaps” - http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/atheism-of-gaps.html
. “Es - ka - Pay” - http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/es-ka-pay.html
. “Please Read This” - http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/please-read-this.html
. “Which Came First” - http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/which-came-first.html
. “Why Would You Choose ID” - http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/why-would-you-choose-id.html
. “Chance Did It” - http://makarios-makarios.blogspot.com/2009/12/chance-did-it.html


When atheists are confronted with something they can't answer, as in my last post, some of them say, “Yes, yes chance did it.” Others say, “No, no, chance had nothing to do with it.” Arguments from ignorance every one.

And of course atheists talk about how “simple” the earliest cells were as though that explains something. That’s just embarrassing.

First of all, for every combination of amino acids that turns out a working protein, there are a HUGE number of other possible combinations that do not and will not work. What’s more, as the length of requisite proteins grows, the needed number of amino-acid sequence combinations grows and it grows exponentially.

Look at it this way. There are four ways to combine the letters A and B. There are eight ways to combine three letters. AAA, AAB, ABB, ABA, BAA, BBA, BAB, BBB.

For proteins there are 400 ways to make a two-amino-acid combination. This is because each position can be in any one of 20 different alphabetic characters. This means that there are 116,000 ways to make a four amino acid sequence.

But most functional proteins are made of hundreds of amino acids.

At this point atheists will bring out the million monkeys typing for a billion years. Atheists actually believe that scenario. That’s embarrassing.

If amino acids do not link up with one another via a peptide bond, the resulting molecule won’t fold properly. No proper fold, no protein. As well, other possible chemical bonds exist at a rate of 1 in 2. That means that the chance of getting a chain of 150 amino acids where all linkages are peptide linkages is 1 chance in 10 ^ 45.

Then we have to take into consideration that proteins tolerate only left-handed amino acids, yet right hand amino acids exist at about the same rate as left handed amino acids.

Atheist - Ya but natural selection is at work.
Anyone else - So what?

Getting, by chance, only left-handed amino acids in a peptide chain of 150 amino acids and in which all bonds are peptide bonds is 1 chance in 10 ^ 90. Most amino acids must link up in specified sequential arrangements in order to function. The probability of getting any specific amino acid at any given site is 1 chance in 20. This is not taking into consideration all the non protein-forming amino acids that exist in nature. This raises the probability of finding a protein 150 amino acids long to about 1 chance in 10 ^ 195

There are only 10 ^ 80 sub atomic particle in the entire universe.

Atheist - “Big numbers don’t mean anything.”
Anyone else - “Ya, right.”

Chance and Selection. Big words in atheist world. In the example above, the odds of producing a working protein sequence 150 amino acids long at random is like finding a single marked atom out of all the atoms in our galaxy. The search of course, in atheist world, has to be unaided. Axe, "Estimating the Prevalence of Protein Sequences." Atheists believe that it happened. That’s embarrassing!

Even a minimally complex cell would require many, many more proteins than just one. This is important because atheists are always stuck in their error that the first living cell was “simple.” That’s why atheists didn’t even think of asking how life began until 200 years after Darwin. Atheists believed that first life was so simple that, well, its beginning was no big deal. A little chance. A little selection and presto! "Houston, we've got life." That’s embarrassing!!

Early life was anything but simple. A minimally complex cell has to have at least 250 proteins of, on average 150 amino acids. Producing just one protein like that, via random selection is 1 in 10 ^ 164. That means that the chance of making all the necessary proteins is 1 in 10 ^ 164 times 250 or 1 in 10 ^ 41,000.

There are only 10 ^ 80 subatomic particle in the entire universe.

Time, chance, random selection, billions of monkeys and trillions of years isn’t enough to convince me that creating the proteins that are needed to build even a simple cell OR the information needed to create those proteins happened by chance. I’d be embarrassed to believe otherwise.

46 comments:

The Atheist Missionary said...

When atheists are confronted with something they can't answer, most of them will admit that they don't have all the answers.

Bible boy Mak claims that he has all the answers and they can be found in a book written between 3500-1800 years ago. Why his book is so special he has a hard time explaining. He also has a hard time explaining why he is an atheist towards all other gods but his own.

Mak is certain that there must be a first cause and that his god is it and that it all basically happened in the literal manner described in the Bible. Right down to Noah and the ark and the animals marching in rows of two. If you are still reading this, you must really have nothing to do.

Makarios said...

What in this post or any of the posts in thi series comes from the Bible?

Gorth Satana said...

Did you read the responses to "chance did it"?

PhillyChief said...

A rather long argument from personal incredulity. yawn

Chris Mackey said...

When atheists are confronted with something they can't answer, as in my last post,

Dishonest. Gorth and Ginx answered everything in your last post.

Atheists believed that...
Atheists believe that it happened...
Atheists believe that it happened...

ATHEISM IS JUST A LACK OF BELIEF IN GODS.

That’s embarrassing!!
Yet another post from personal incredulity? You best believe you're embarrassing.

Ginx said...

The complete lack of anything Biblical is just evidence for how non-Christian this all is. No Christian wants to defend the Bible, and I can't say I blame them.

JD Curtis said...

No Christian wants to defend the Bible, and I can't say I blame them.

Defend the Bible against what?

PhillyChief said...

I would have to disagree. Christians love defending their bible, and it can be amazingly entertaining to watch the effort.

Chris Mackey said...

The Bible is a science book.

Insects have four legs, rabbits chew the cud, the Earth is 6000 years old and flat with corners, different languages came from the tower of Babel...

That’s embarrassing.

PhillyChief said...

Well I don't know what's more embarrassing, taking that stuff literally or spinning fantastic yarns about how that stuff is metaphor, means something else or is otherwise not what you have to accept as a Christian. I do fancy hearing the rationalizations for the latter, though. They're usually very entertaining.

JD Curtis said...

Time, chance, random selection, billions of monkeys and trillions of years isn’t enough to convince me that creating the proteins that are needed to build even a simple cell OR the information needed to create those proteins happened by chance. I’d be embarrassed to believe otherwise.

Yes, but in true, atheistic form, the attempt has already been made to change the topic to Young earth Creationism rather than address the topic of the thread. Woefully predictable.

JD Curtis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JD Curtis said...

I came across this today for those who think that the lessons of the Bible are irrelevant.

PhillyChief said...

Those lessons, although in the Christian bible, are human lessons. There are human lessons of value in every society, in every religion, and every philosophy. There are lessons about inequality in the Communist Manifesto. The point is although there are parts of value, that does not necessarily reflect the value of the whole.

It's a gross oversimplification by Mr. Boggs to say atheists dismiss the Christian bible altogether. What's dismissed are a lot of the claims made in it and about it.

Btw, what "unyielding, eternal, and ever relevant truth" are commands to dash babies against rocks or kill witches? What a silly man, and how reprehensible to try and exploit others' misfortune for his own end. Typical 'ends justify the means' religious thinking there.

JD Curtis said...

what "unyielding, eternal, and ever relevant truth" are commands to dash babies against rocks

explain please the difference between living under a warrant in ancient times and someone commiting infanticide today. Would such a person doing so today be expected to get away with such behavior?

or kill witches

Where in the Bible does it say for you or I to go out and kill witches?

What about addressing the subject of this thread and put aside witches, Young Earth Creationism and the Kansas City Chiefs? Or would that amount to an admission that Mak is right?

PhillyChief said...

"Put to death any woman who practices magic" - Exodus 22:18

Now let's see the twisting out of that one.

Btw, the infanticide warrants in the OT allegedly come from your god, so if you're going to play the 'different times' card, then that means morality is subject to change at the whim of your god. That's hardly a basis for a moral code.

Have a nice day

JD Curtis said...

"Put to death any woman who practices magic" - Exodus 22:18



"The nations with which Israel came in contact were given to the most satanic cults and the powers of Satan were manifested among them. Demoniacal possessions abounded, and witchcraft, sorceries, asking the dead, and other abominations were practised. Witchcraft and sorceries, communicating with the wicked spirits is therefore more than a possibility. It can be traced throughout the history of the human race and whenever nations ripened for judgment this form of evil became prominent." Commentary by Arno Clement Gaebelein.

"Many of the Israelites had, no doubt, learned these curious arts from their long residence with the Egyptians; and so much were the Israelites attached to them, that we find such arts in repute among them, and various practices of this kind prevailed through the whole of the Jewish history, notwithstanding the offense was capital, and in all cases punished with death." Adam Clarke's Commentary....................... "The practice of sorcery was almost always associated with "medicinal arts" (the taking of drugs) in the ancient world, and was therefore a connection between drug taking and occultic practices.

This was considered a severe enough threat that sorcery was considered a capital crime - the link between drugs and the occult was rightly seen as deadly." David Guzik's Commentaries

Since you seem to know so much about this verse, can you please explain

A. If Clarke, Guzik and Gaebelein were incorrect in their commentaries and
B. How this law applies to people other than the ancient Isrealites and why. And...
C. Your arguments in favor of Satanic drug dealers.

Awaiting your reply.
Sueno con los angelitos pelotudo

PhillyChief said...

I have no idea who those people are that you're quoting, but they're making the most outrageous (and false) assertions. The Israelites never encountered Satan worshippers, there's no evidence of demonic possessions, and to suggest medicinal arts equals evil occult practices is simply ridiculous, although I can see those ignorant tribesmen thinking anyone doing anything they didn't understand were doing something evil, but we're talking about commands from your god, no? Commandments or some ignorant tribesmen ramblings?

But let's skip all that and pretend we have a group of Satanic druggies. Is it ok to to kill them? That's what your bible is commanding. Your commentators say nothing about any of that. It seems like they're simply coming up with crazy excuses for doing it.

Amuse me with another reply
Ujinga ni maovu kweli

Makarios said...

Ujinga ni maovu kweli

Oh, Oh, wait - I know this one.

lk nwoie ntlkmc amoint lin mnoiensot.

Am I right?

Marcus Wellington said...

Ever noticed a lot of doctors are jews?
Its the phrama-witchcraft line coming through the ages.

PhillyChief said...

LOL!

JD Curtis said...

Is it ok to to kill them?

Apparently God told these people yes Thunder Thud. Now, let's hear your argument for alternative settlements of the issue of drug-induced satanists. I know that youre not going to do anything as mind-numbingly stupid as viewing this matter as someone in the 21st century with the benefit of drug rehabilitation centers, modern prisons, probation and parole officers a professional police force, court ordered counseling and a criminal justice system of this century so what would you suggest that uneducated members of a largely agrarian society in the ANE do?

Chris Mackey said...

So why didn't YHWH create drug rehabilitation centers or even just show people how to start them?
:-)

Chris Mackey said...

Why didn't YHWH teach people about antibiotics, He took the time to teach people to sprinkle bird's blood on themselves to get rid of some diseases.
--Oh, I already know the answer.

PhillyChief said...

Are you using the 'it was a different time' defense, JD?

JD Curtis said...

why didn't YHWH create drug rehabilitation centers or even just show people how to start them?

Who would staff them? How would they be certified? Was there anything that resembled a judicial system that we know today?

Now Chief Underpants, again, I will reiterate, let's hear your argument for alternative settlements of the issue of drug-induced satanists. I know that youre not going to do anything as mind-numbingly stupid as viewing this matter as someone in the 21st century with the benefit of drug rehabilitation centers, modern prisons, probation and parole officers a professional police force, court ordered counseling and a criminal justice system of this century so what would you suggest that uneducated members of a largely agrarian society in the ANE do?

JD Curtis said...

Why didn't YHWH teach people about antibiotics

Where would they have gone to college to even understand the most basic concets of modern science, nevermind bacteria and infectuous diseases.

Check Leviticus 15th Chapter re: infectuous diseases and using running water to clean. If you can find me a source that predates this one insofar as using running water when dealing with pathogens, please mention it here.

PhillyChief said...

Is it satisfying to berate those who don't agree with you, JD?

Anyway, you're going way off topic, so please return. Is it today or was it at any time ok to kill those believed to be satanic druggies? And please, justify your answer.

JD Curtis said...

Is it satisfying to berate those who don't agree with you, JD?

Not particulary. Merely the imbeciles who play snipe and dodge and refuse to answer simple questions. Please note, 3rd attempt. Let's hear your argument for alternative settlements of the issue of drug-induced satanists. I know that youre not going to do anything as mind-numbingly stupid as viewing this matter as someone in the 21st century with the benefit of drug rehabilitation centers, modern prisons, probation and parole officers a professional police force, court ordered counseling and a criminal justice system of this century so what would you suggest that uneducated members of a largely agrarian society in the ANE do?

JD Curtis said...

Anyway, you're going way off topic

Is this coming from the guy who changed the subject to witches and babies and rocks when the topic of the thread was how atheists will resort to "chance" to explain an uhber-unlikely event?

Chris Mackey said...

YHWH is all powerful but He couldn't get a drug rehabilitation center certified?

Chris Mackey said...

Check Leviticus 15th Chapter

How am I meant to tell if a woman is menstruating so I can avoid her?

Why didn't you tell me to check out Leviticus 14?
Oh... Now I see...

the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the one to be cleansed. 5 Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. 6 He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. 7 Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the infectious disease and pronounce him clean. Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields.

That's good science.

JD Curtis said...

YHWH is all powerful but He couldn't get a drug rehabilitation center certified?

Using your unique brand of logic Chris, I could with equal reason demand to know why God hasnt directly informed us how to unlock the secret of cold fusion as an energy source. We could continue with this line of question ad nauseum but none of it would disprove the existance of God in the slightest.

My earlier reference was to Leviticus 15 and the use of running water to clean possibly pathogen-laden bodily fluids. I thought that by now you would have come up with a reference that predates Leviticus (about 1500 B.C.) on this subject. I really don't know if such a reference exists or not. Do you?

Chris Mackey said...

I could with equal reason demand to know why God hasnt directly informed us how to unlock the secret of cold fusion as an energy source.

And I could tell you the answer. YHWH and all the other gods only know what the people who invented them know.

Chris Mackey said...

I really don't know if such a reference exists or not.

And I didn't bother looking.
If killing birds over a jug of fresh water does turn out to be effective, maybe I'll look into it.

JD Curtis said...

And I could tell you the answer. YHWH and all the other gods only know what the people who invented them know.

Jesus Christ was a real, historical figure. no one "invented" him.

And I didn't bother looking

Which, like your pal Hiawatha, is a bit dishonest. Why sieze upon the statistics/definitions that best suit your worldview and leave it at that? Why not at least examine matters with an open mind? Trust me, I don't care if you go to Hell. I assume youre an adult and you can make your own decisions.

Here, I found this for you.

"The instructions recorded in Leviticus 15 are strikingly similar to modern disease-prevention techniques.

For example, anyone touching a person with a ‘running issue’ (that is, a bodily discharge), or anything upon which that person sat or lay, became ‘unclean’. In addition, should the ‘toucher’ touch someone without first having washed his hands, uncleanness would be transferred to the person he touched as well.

Just a little more than 100 years ago, these precautions were instituted in modern medical facilities to prevent diseases from spreading."

Chris Mackey said...

Jesus Christ was a real, historical figure. no one "invented" him.

And was this "real, historical figure" telling people killing birds over water cured disease (Lev 14)?

Which, like your pal Hiawatha, is a bit dishonest. Why sieze upon the statistics/definitions that best suit your worldview and leave it at that? Why not at least examine matters with an open mind?

I might have lost the train of this conversation because I don't know what you are talking about. But I'll try and address what I think you might be saying.
If I told you have a tribe says a god told them that if they chewed a certain leaf their pain would go away, would you consider this evidence for their god?
What if I told you that that leaf is what we discovered aspirin (the painkiller acetylsalicylic acid) in?
Is their unnamed god more likely to exist now?

Trust me, I don't care if you go to Hell.

Thanks. I think.

Here, I found this for you.

No offense but you could not have picked a more biased site.

Mission statement: We take the absolute truth and authority of the Bible to the world.

more from the mission statement:
# Scripture teaches a recent origin for man and the whole creation, spanning approximately 4,000 years from creation to Christ.
# The days in Genesis do not correspond to geologic ages, but are six [6] consecutive twenty-four [24] hour days of creation
.

Are you one of those 6000 year old universe people too?

Chris Mackey said...

"If I told you have a tribe"
should read
"If I told you THAT a tribe"

JD Curtis said...

was this "real, historical figure" telling people killing birds over water cured disease (Lev 14)?

I'm merely pointing out that Jesus Christ was a historic personage. Not "Zeus" or something equally ludicrous.

Are you one of those 6000 year old universe people too?

I note that this is at least the 2nd attempt on your part to try to change the topic to Young Earth Creationism. An all to predictable tactic that one of the former practioners of your non-theistic religion as much as admitted to last weeked on this thread.

Chris Mackey said...

I note that this is at least the 2nd attempt on your part to try to change the topic to Young Earth Creationism.

What? You're the one who linked to that page.

An all to predictable tactic that one of the former practioners of your non-theistic religion as much as admitted to last weeked on this thread.

Link? Quote?

I'm merely pointing out that Jesus Christ was a historic personage.

I was talking about YHWH.

So...
If I told you have a tribe says a god told them that if they chewed a certain leaf their pain would go away, would you consider this evidence for their god?
What if I told you that that leaf is what we discovered aspirin (the painkiller acetylsalicylic acid) in?
Is their unnamed god more likely to exist now?

JD Curtis said...

You're the one who linked to that page

I linked the relevant reference to Leviticus 15. Not about the age of the Earth. if there was something else on that link then that was not my intention.


I was talking about YHWH

Christians believe that jesus Christ was God as well as man. C'mon, you must have heard that somewhere.

If I told you have a tribe says a god told them that if they chewed a certain leaf their pain would go away, would you consider this evidence for their god?
What if I told you that that leaf is what we discovered aspirin (the painkiller acetylsalicylic acid) in?
Is their unnamed god more likely to exist now?


I really don't know enough about said god belief based on one plant. I find archeologically verifiable facts to be helpful in forming an opinion in these matters.

"An all to predictable tactic that one of the former practioners of your non-theistic religion as much as admitted to last weeked on this thread.

Link? Quote?"

Click on the last 2 words (this thread) on my 9:25 entry for the relevant quote.

Chris Mackey said...

as much as admitted to last weeked on this thread.

My error. I had read "this thread" to mean "the thread we're now in" because I didn't see the link.

Chris Mackey said...

I was talking about YHWH

Christians believe that jesus Christ was God as well as man. C'mon, you must have heard that somewhere.

Hang on? Are you saying this "real, historical" Jesus told people to wash their hands and kill birds over water many years before he was born?

JD Curtis said...

Are you saying this "real, historical" Jesus told people to wash their hands and kill birds over water many years before he was born?

Sorry, where in the Bible are we to "kill birds over water"?

Chris Mackey said...

Leviticus 14 (New International)
Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "These are the regulations ... 4 the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the one to be cleansed. 5 Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. 6 He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. 7 Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the infectious disease and pronounce him clean. Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields...

Christ Follower (no longer) said...

I LOL'd.