Tuesday, October 27, 2009

What Is Truth?

Even though the view that there is no ultimate truth is intimately connected via atheism to the denial of God, such a view is clearly self-contradictory. Such is the illogic of atheism. A self-contradictory belief is an erroneous belief, as is atheism.

To know that disorder exists, one must have an idea of order.
To know that someone is blind, we must know what it means to have sight.

When a sceptic tells you that there is no such thing as truth, or that you are in error regarding your belief in God, that same sceptic is refuting h/her own premise that there is no such thing as truth. For when a sceptic says that Christianity is false, that same sceptic is telling you that s/he is in possession of truth even while telling you that truth does not exist.

Atheism, self-contradictory, absurd, incoherent and illogical to the core.

12 comments:

Ginx said...

Tons of things can be known.

2+2=4
Sometimes the sky is blue.
The Sun will rise tomorrow (we even know when!)

I agree with you that post-modernism is really annoying. There's plenty of truth in the world.

You know what I hate more? People who say you can't know what's right or wrong. That's even scarier... I don't like to be near someone who thinks you can't figure that out.

However, one must not be in possession of truth in order to spot falsehood. I don't have to know how the universe began in order find Genesis to be inaccurate.

If I told you my name was YHWH, you would not need to know my real name in order to deny my claim as implausible, in good faith.

Which reminds me... isn't skepticism a faith, considering one believes that nothing can be known?

Makarios said...

Very few sceptics seem sceptical of scepticism.

Ginx said...

Well of course not. There's no sense in having amazing critical thinking skills if you're just going to turn them inward and see your own flaws.

"If you look long enough into the void the void begins to look back through you." - Nietzsche

Tristan Vick said...

I think you missunderstand what Atheism is.

Atheism is not a belief system per say, it is a cogent way of understanding. Atheism literaly equates to: the lack of belief in God or gods, and anything paranormal or supernatural, due to insufficient evidence.

This doesn't mean we wouldn't change our mind if reliable and verifiable evidence should present itself.

Anything else an Atheist may be, a humanist, freethinker, agnostic, etc. are merely appreciations which help us find purpose and meaning in life.

We can find purpose and meaning in literature, art, music, philosophy, etc. None of this requires "belief" as you describe it.

I think you buy to much into the stereotype of the negative atheists you hear about. Granted, there is a little truth behind every stereotype, as I know many religious types who are truly delusional. Others are lucidly coherent and rational. But I think you like to use the stereotype to libel atheism to make your position sound superior, and that to me, seems unprofessional.

But I don't think you should just cut atheists off. Sometimes it does us good to listen to the other person's point of view and try to understand their side of things. If you just keep blatantly rejecting everything any atheist says, without seriously investigating it, then you are guilty of doing the same thing you accuse them of! Not taking the time to listen to your side of things.

I hope you read more of my blog to acquaint yourself with a non-stereotypical atheist. Because like I said earlier, I was a Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian, part of the Assemblies of God Church, for 30 years before my gradual and incremental deconversion.

Ginx said...

For one thing, there are two forms of non-theism, and I like to think of them as Atheists and atheists. The Atheists say there are no gods. The atheists say they lack belief in gods.

The Atheists make a claim and must support it with evidence, while an atheist needs merely to have not been convinced there are gods.

However, regardless of which stance one takes, I have yet to meet an atheist (and certainly no Atheist) who does not put faith in science. This is positive in many ways, but there are problems with it. Consider our reliance on pills, from Viagra and Prozac to pain killers and even speed for kids.

We just don't have time to be experts in everything, so we all trust in someone else's knowledge from time to time. Whether it's medicine or car repair, we all put faith in something, or someone.

If you drive, you're a humanist because you must believe in the inherent good in every driver you pass.

Makarios said...

"The Atheists make a claim and must support it with evidence,"

Whoa, just back that one up a bit. What evidence would that be?
============

Of course atheists have faith. We all do. But because the word is linked so closely with religion, atheists are forced to deny the truth in yet one more area of their lives.

If I may, I'd like to suggest a third group; the largest group of all non-theists, and that is Functional Atheists - those who live as though God does not exist. This is a rather quirky group. For example a member of this group may kill someone or rob someone or deal drugs to someone and when s/he goes to jail, that person will tick off Baptist or Lutheran or Anglican for the Religion catagory.

For the less criminally inclined members of the Functional Atheist group, they will go about their day, week, month with nary a thought about their spiritual state. Until Christmas or Easter and then it's off to Church, mostly to please the fam. Anyhow, enough.

Thanks for your comments, always insightful.

Tristan Vick said...

Since only 2% of the penal system is composed of nonbelievers while approximately 40% is populated by believing Christians (see Phil Zuckerman's Society Without God for cited polls), I fail to see how you equate criminal behavior with unbelief, or more specifically, non-belief?

Especially since you forget that there are billions of people on the world who are raised without the concept of God to begin with. All they have is non-belief, take the billions of Buddhists for example.

It is well known that Buddhists don't believe in any deity, and the practice of praying to gods in Buddhism is, for the lack of a better word, a type of ancestor worship-secular in nature. Hindus believe in billions of Gods, and so do Shinto adherents and Native Americans, but I bet you don't believe in any of these culture's gods, right?

Ah-ha! See, you've eliminated their gods because you don't find them believable, you are virtually atheistic when it comes to the rejection of other culture's and people's gods. All but for your own, of course.

Atheists just go one God further. No problem!

JD Curtis said...

Atheism is not a belief system per say, it is a cogent way of understanding.

That sounds nice. Couldnt I just as easily say that theism is the belief in, shall we say, "presence" whereas atheism is the belief that the "presence" is not there?

Anything else an Atheist may be, a humanist, freethinker, agnostic, etc. are merely appreciations which help us find purpose and meaning in life.

Seems accurate.

We can find purpose and meaning in literature, art, music, philosophy, etc. None of this requires "belief" as you describe it.

And Christians don't find meaning or purpose in these things?

I said earlier, I was a Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian, part of the Assemblies of God Church, for 30 years before my gradual and incremental deconversion.

I would say "conversion" because you merely exchanged your belief system for another. Did you try and reconcile any questions that you might have had with scholars within your denomination or others?

We just don't have time to be experts in everything, so we all trust in someone else's knowledge from time to time. Whether it's medicine or car repair, we all put faith in something, or someone.

Good post Ginx

only 2% of the penal system is composed of nonbelievers while approximately 40% is populated by believing Christians (see Phil Zuckerman's Society Without God for cited polls), I fail to see how you equate criminal behavior with unbelief, or more specifically, non-belief?

Pure bullshit. This is the most intellectully dishonest statement I have read in awhile Link

WARNING: the above link contains the statement "not only is there no evidence to suggest that atheists are better behaved than the average individual, but there is a plethora of evidence suggesting that they are demonstrably more likely to behave badly by both traditional moral and legal measures."

Gorth Satana said...

Wow, Vox Day writes like a mental patient.


Vox Popoli

Featuring Vox Day, Internet Superintelligence, AWCA



-A brief note to the ankle-biters-

On this fine afternoon, I find myself contemplating just what, precisely, could possibly be the purpose for your collective existence, which to the observer appears to testify against intelligent design and natural selection alike. I don't pretend to understand what sickness of the soul causes you to repeatedly bash your heads against the unforgiving wall of my logic, or what compulsive disorder drives you to put yourselves in a position to be humiliated over and over again by my superior knowledge and intellect, as no sooner are you shot down than you rise, with all the sublime, shambling grace of a mindless zombie, and stumble back into the fray.

Are my ankles so sweet that you cannot resist snapping at them? Do your psychological scars run so deep that you cannot control your masochistic longings for brutal correction?

For years, I have told myself that even if your tedious and petty objections can only sharpen my arguments in the manner that butter sharpens steel, at least your desire to catch me in error, no matter how small that error might be, could nevertheless serve a useful purpose. Even the most flawlessly honed body benefits from its intestinal bacteria, after all..
.

"Internet Superintelligence"!
"my superior knowledge and intellect"!
I thought it might have been a joke but this guy seriously writes for World Nut Daily... sorry, World News Daily.
He's a comedy goldmine!

Gorth Satana said...

Ok, my mind is blown. Vox Day wrote Silcon Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tkRthjuYUU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Day

Tristan Vick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tristan Vick said...

JD Curtis-- I wasn't being intellectually dishonest. I cited an accredited sociologist. If you're saying his information is wrong, you'll have to do better.

Can you cite a trusted poll and not a propagandist Christian website please? And I'm not saying cite an "atheist" poll... so don't misunderstand me.

I cited an accredited source, as Phil Zuckerman is a professional sociologist who has studied religion. You gave me a bogus and extremely biased website by a video game designer/Libertarian/Christian. That's not even close to being the same.

Try a Gallup poll or Pew Research poll and get back to me.

http://www.gallup.com/Home.aspx

http://people-press.org/