Saturday, October 24, 2009

Religion and Violence

Atheists are notorious for wanting to rid the world of religion (read Christianity) and their stated reason is the violence promoted and carried out by religion (read Islam).

Oh yes, atheists will bring up the 5 or so abortionists that have been murdered over the last ten years (I'm not suggesting that that's ok). And some will go back a millennia to rant about the crusades and inquisitions (I'm not suggesting that those were ok). Anybody with a brain knows that those behaviours are impossible to square with the teachings of Jesus. So the question becomes, Why aren’t there Christian terrorists? Here’s one explanation.

“If your fundamental [world-view] is based upon a man dying on the cross for his enemies,

If the very heart of your self-image and your religion is a man praying for his enemies as he died for them, sacrificing for them, loving them.

If that sinks into your heart of hearts, it’s going to produce the kind of life that the early Christians produced - the most inclusive possible life out of the most exclusive claim - and that is, this is the truth. But what is the truth? The truth is a God become weak, loving, and dying for the people who oppose him, dying forgiving them.

Tim Keller, “Reason for God,” in The Explorer, www.veritas.org/explorer/fall2008.html#story1

23 comments:

TheGiant said...

Hey I noticed your comment you left on my blog. I've spent a lot of time lately thinking about the fact that as a geek I find myself around many atheists who are soooo into their science. It puts me in a weird position sometimes, like being in a geek chatroom and seeing geeks bash religion, then turning around, and my religious friends bashing the things I am into. It's like I am trapped in the middle.

Makarios said...

Well that sucks! What does geek mean? My picture is someone whose interests are unlike those of others, especially as it relates to academic or technical pursuits.

Anyhow, how you find a place that fits.

TheGiant said...

Yeah, that's pretty a pretty close definition. I usually don't think much of what it means, because a lot of geeks have different ideas of what being one means to them.

Gorth Satana said...

The world is not just the north America. Just this month, there was outrage over a new video of Christians burning a "witch" and reports of dozens of other such acts.
There has even been Buddhist violence in the last few months.
Also. No true Scotsman.

Hugo said...

Well TheGiant, you are a shame for geeks then, lol, just kidding :P

Anyway, time to wake up and realize that if you believe in a god, it's only a concept you have in your mind that help you understand the things that are not self-evident for you in life.

If you think your god exists in actual reality, i.e. something that is not a concept, then feel free to present evidence for that...

Concerning Makarios' post on violence; let me state the same thing again...

People do good things because it's good. People do bad things for whatever reason they have. But no matter what the reason is, good or bad, it's not an indication of whether the reasons, or the beliefs, are true.

Gorth's examples help support the point. People, no matter what they believe, no matter where they live, can do bad things...

Makarios said...

Also. No true Scotsman.

Oh really? And which part of Jesus' teaching would lead you to believe that these are Christians? Are there any tenets of animism that fit with that kind of behaviour.

The Atheist Missionary said...

Why aren’t there atheist terrorists?

Gorth Satana said...

"Do not suffer a witch to live"
"hewn down, and cast into the fire."
"...and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

SmartLX said...

Christian terrorists. Voila.

Leo B. VadalĂ  said...

"Why aren't there atheist terrorists?"

Perhaps because they perform most of their mass murder and mayhem when they are in power. Nobody's hards are clean in this regard, because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But do you really care to do a comparative tally, particularly during the "englihtened" 20th century as to who has the most blood on their hands?

Makarios said...

LX: I'm not condoning what these people have done, but do you have any idea of what's led up to this? Any idea at all?

JD Curtis said...

People, no matter what they believe, no matter where they live, can do bad things...

Thank you for stating your support for the Bible supported theory that man is fallible. Not perfectable, malleable.

Gorth Satana said...

But do you really care to do a comparative tally, particularly during the "englihtened" 20th century as to who has the most blood on their hands?

Religion. Not as bad as Stalin

Glen20 said...

Stalin's "Great Purge" as entirely political and mostly directed towards people perceived to be Communists.

SmartLX said...

A little, Mak. The separatists are Bodo people from the Indian state of Assam. They want their own country, which would be predominantly Christian and be named Bodoland. It's something like the Kurds in Iraq and Turkey trying to establish a Kurdistan between the two, but the Bodo are more aggressive about it.

JD Curtis said...

Stalin's "Great Purge" as entirely political and mostly directed towards people perceived to be Communists.

Stalin closed over 90% of churches and had the few that were left infiltrated with his toady's.

Hugo said...

"My religion kills the least, therefore it's the best!"
- Some theist

Leo B. VadalĂ  said...

"My religion kills the least, therefore it's the best!"

You know perfectly well that is not the point of this post, nor of my comments nor J.D.s.

The point is to dismiss the nonsense put forth by atheists that religion causes violence. All fallen, human creatures have the propensity for violence, which is incited or inspired for a whole host of reasons.

Hugo said...

"human creatures have the propensity for violence, which is incited or inspired for a whole host of reasons."

THANKS, that's MY point too.

I removed the "fallen" word of course because that's a useless metaphor.

So now we won't hear you Christians say that only non-Christian can be violent?

I doubt it...

JD Curtis said...

"My religion kills the least, therefore it's the best!"

Yes, it would appear that your non-theistic religion has killed many more people than theistic ones. Have you tabulated how many?

SmartLX said...

Well, someone have a go if you're going to bother about this. Start here.

Chris Mackey said...

Imagine if the Christians had machine guns back in the Crusade times!

It's pretty sad that Christians seriously want to make this a contest. It's like saying "Stalin's good, he killed less than Hitler!"

But I've had a Christian say to me "God kills everyone in the end!"

Hugo said...

lol JD, you didn't get that I was quoting a theist?

Hence the "- Some theist" after.

But anyway, it was a fake quote of course ;)