Saturday, October 17, 2009

I'm better than you.

Have you ever wondered what sets you apart from those who take part in genocides? Have you ever wondered if, had you been born in that part of the world, having been fed the same hatred from an early age, experienced the same injustice, do you think that you’d say "No," instead of taking part in the killing of your neighbours?

And if you think that you’d be different than those people, if, like many atheists, you think that you're better than those people, just exactly what is wrong with you?

16 comments:

Leo B. Vadalà said...

Welcome back, Mak.

I follow your line of thinking, but I am afraid atheists don't have a monopoly on thinking that they are better than others. Sure, as Christians, our professed theology might even believe in the total depravity of man. All too often, though, our functional theology says otherwise. We would like to imagine we would never do X. It is probably one of the reasons why Paul said, "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment..."

Gorth Satana said...

"...just exactly what is wrong with you?"

Are you asking "if you don't want to take part in genocide, what's wrong with you?"

Anyway, do you believe the universe is 6000 years old? or the earth is 6000 years old? or people have only existed for 6000 years?

Leo B. Vadalà said...

Red Herring, Gorth. Stick to the topic.

Gorth Satana said...

It's a question he's been dodging from threads where it wasn't a "red herring".

Leo B. Vadalà said...

The last I checked, a 6000 year old earth is not an essential tenet of theism or even of Christianity for that matter. So though I did not see the previous threads, my suspicion is that the question was just as much a red herring the first time as it was this time.

Gorth Satana said...

Speaking of genocide, here's a comment from William Craig about genocide:

"So whom does God wrong in commanding the destruction of the Canaanites? Not the Canaanite adults, for they were corrupt and deserving of judgement. Not the children, for they inherit eternal life. So who is wronged? Ironically, I think the most difficult part of this whole debate is the apparent wrong done to the Israeli soldiers themselves. Can you imagine what it would be like to have to break into some house and kill a terrified woman and her children? The brutalizing effect on these Israeli soldiers is disturbing."
-William Craig

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5767

Goodness! The guy's a monster!

Makarios said...

But here’s the thing Leo, in order to become a Christian, do we not have to admit that we are NOT good? Do we not have to admit that the evil that is destroying our planet and it’s inhabitants resides also in us?

Yes, some Christians seem to forget why we required forgiveness in the first place, but at least we are not allowed to think that we’re “good people.” This is in direct contrast to atheists who, in order to say, “I don’t need God in order to be a good person,” means that the atheist must believe that s/he is a good person.

Leo B. Vadalà said...

"Goodness! The guy's a monster!"

Why? Because he disturbs your moral sensibilities, which of course are meaningless when you take your atheistic world view to its logical conclusion?

And by the way, the basket continues to overflow with red herrings. I would try to answer Mak's original question instead, because you are otherwise making his point.

Leo B. Vadalà said...

"But here’s the thing Leo, in order to become a Christian, do we not have to admit that we are NOT good?"

Absolutely, Mak. We are on the same page. I am terrified at what I would be or still could become apart from God's unmerited favor. But we do forget. That's why I like to follow Jerry Bridges' advise to "preach the Gospel to myself daily."

Gorth Satana said...

"Why? Because he disturbs your moral sensibilities, which of course are meaningless when you take your atheistic world view to its logical conclusion?"

I'm not an atheist.
But I actually think Craig's line of think was so morally wrong that it was actually amusing.
It's like thinking "I feel so sorry for the Nazis because they were forced to kill all those people."
And killing children is okay by him too!

Leo B. Vadalà said...

I suggest you read the entirety of what Craig said and put it in context before you make a moral judgment. Otherwise you are guilty of the same pre-judgment as I apparently am. If you are not an atheist, exactly what do you believe?

Gorth Satana said...

I suggest you read the entirety of what Craig said and put it in context before you make a moral judgment.

I did. I also provided a link so everyone can read it in context. It still amuses me.

If you are not an atheist, exactly what do you believe?

Red Herring, Leo. Stick to the topic!

Makarios said...

Jerry Bridges' advice

Ya, very important.

SmartLX said...

What sets me apart from most people who take part in genocides is that I'm an atheist.

The majority of genocides in history, if not religiously motivated, were perpetrated by believers and allowed or even condoned by the local religious authorities. Not all of them, of course, but religious instruction doesn't seem to help matters much.

JD Curtis said...

The majority of genocides in history, if not religiously motivated, were perpetrated by believers and allowed or even condoned by the local religious authorities.

Source?

SmartLX said...

There, and of course the references at the bottom.

The Marxist and Communist actions of last century had a lot to live up to.