Wednesday, October 21, 2009

God's Sovereignty

When Joseph was sold into slavery, it wasn’t some random event. It was part of God’s sovereign plan, as are the things that happen to us. After a couple decades of real hardship, Joseph said to the brothers that had sold him, “You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.”

God meant for it to happen, and He meant for good to come out of it.

What atheists cannot stand is the fact that God’s plan for the redemption of the universe takes priority over our feelings.

The beauty of Joseph’s story is that it shows two things:
. Sin, satan and suffering NEVER have the last word
. The things that happen to us are NEVER an indication of the level of God’s love for us.

6 comments:

Gorth Satana said...

"Sin, satan and suffering NEVER have the last word"

I disagree, Hell is a big win for suffering.

JD Curtis said...

But only if you let it Gorth.

Good points Mak. I was reading about suffering today. People assume that it's always bad but sometimes it works toward a greater purpose.

Makarios said...

Hell is God's final word.

JD, I would just add that for Christians, suffering ALWAYS works toward a greater purpose. Romans 8:28 is the promise of good in all things and 8:29 describes the good that will be brought forth in all things, i.e., we will be conformed and transformed into the likeness and character if Jesus the Christ.
There may be other good things that come out of our trials but that it the bottom line good if we allow our Creator to work His will in and through us.

Hugo said...

I find these "God's plans" explanations very funny.

How do you decide what's caused by God or not?

Rod says "God meant for it to happen, and He meant for good to come out of it.", how do you know he meant it? how do you know it's for good? You are being the judge, who are you to be the judge? Why shall we trust you? are you divine too?

And you guys say that suffering can be, or is always, toward a greater purpose. That's just disgusting… you crossed a line here honestly.

Plus this raises related questions. If suffering is part of God's plan, why does he do it this way? What a douche… but if it's man's fault, why call it God's plan? If it's never man's fault, then we don't have free will? Because it's all God's plan anyway so do we truly choose?

Of course the answers from your part are easy to predict, as God is never the bad guy in the story… only men can be. We are the ones who need to get close to God. But it's all God's plan also. So let's enslave people who don't believe, kill their kids, rape their wives in the name of God!! Because that's God's plan, and it's for a greater purpose!

Why not? What prevent you from killing Atheists? What are you waiting for if it's for a greater purpose?

Makarios said...

Why shall we trust you? are you divine too?"

A lot of people know the account. I wrongly assumed that you were one of them. That's what the account says, Joseph was brought into Egypt of make possible many years later the great Exodus and God's incredible show of power that, "Would be remembered down through history."
===============
And you guys say that suffering can be, or is always, toward a greater purpose."

That is not what I say. The evil of suffering will always, "for those who love God and who have been called according to His purpose," be used or good. For people like you, I think suffering is mostly a waste of time although God does use it to drive you even further into your choice to reject Him.
============
If suffering is part of God's plan, why does he do it this way?"

Because a fallen and dying world is all that He has to work with.
Knowing what freewill choices we will make, God "from before the founding of the world" has and is bringing to completion His plan for the redemption of the universe.
==============
If suffering is part of God's plan, why does he do it this way?"

Two points:
. How would killing atheists be for a greater purpose, and

. It isn't about my greater purpose, but Creator God's. From our limited perspective, that is usually only seen in hindsight.

From now until the Day of Judgment, God is on your side. He is giving you every opportunity to repent and come home to paradise.

Hugo said...

"For people like you, I think suffering is mostly a waste of time although God does use it to drive you even further into your choice to reject Him."

That's hilarious.

First of all it's obvious that there are suffering which is not a waste of time; medical surgery, getting a vaccine, visit to the dentist, etc... what a foolish thing to imply.

But the second part is what's really funny; you say that "God does use [suffering] to drive [atheists] even further into [their] choice to reject him"?

What the... lol... So basically you are saying that it's God who is driving us non-believers away from him? So you admit that we have nothing to do, that it's God's plan to drive us away from him?

Phew, what a relief, it's God who made me intelligent enough to realize that his existence is highly improbable (read impossible in the case of the Christian God) and that the only thing we know about him comes from the concept believers have in their mind. Thanks Rod!

" Because a fallen and dying world is all that He has to work with. Knowing what freewill choices we will make, God "from before the founding of the world" has and is bringing to completion His plan for the redemption of the universe."

Oh ya right, the world HE created... the free will HE gave us... Rhetoric discussions are so funny...

"How would killing atheists be for a greater purpose"

Help spread Christianity? Prevent Atheists to de-convert other people?

Seriously, think more about it... You should also think of why you don't kill people in the general sense.

Hey you should come drop your answer on my blog because I started a thread on that accompanied by a video link, and the only person who addressed it failed to understand the question... I think I had already posted the link already on another comment section here...

"[point 2] It isn't about my greater purpose, but Creator God's. From our limited perspective, that is usually only seen in hindsight.

From now until the Day of Judgment, God is on your side. He is giving you every opportunity to repent and come home to paradise.
"

No you said he drives me further into my choice to reject him...

Anyway, it does not matter as we are discussing the imaginary God you have a concept of in your head, nothing more.

It's only rhetoric talk as nothing you write here is evidence for God's existence in actual reality.

You simply babble your own feelings and emotions as a person who believes that this concept of God is real. Nothing more.

You can't even realize that your own morale comes from you, and no one else. You can't realize that the good you do is because you are a good person. You can't even realize that without believing in God, the world we live in does not change, we are still the same people living the same lives.