Monday, November 2, 2009

You will be killed . . .

In Luke chapter 21 Jesus is talking about how His followers will be hated and put in prison and even killed, “but not a hair on your head will be harmed.”

Jesus says that if we follow Him we:
Will experience an abundant life

Will have joy

Will not have to worry about having our basic needs met.

Hmm, jail and death on this hand and an abundant life on that hand. Since Jesus’ followers both then and down through the ages have suffered persecution and martyrdom and all the hardships of a normal life on earth, just what kind of abundant life was He talking about?

Or, is the abundant life a natural outflow of experiencing persecution? Well, ask an atheist and s/he’d probably say that life is LESS abundant because of persecution. So would most other people. In their ignorance, atheists would call this a Biblical contradiction. Only ignorance could make such a statement. So what gives?

The abundant life about which Jesus speaks is so other-worldly, so counterintuitive that the secular world cannot possibly understand. Dawkins in particular finds it “incomprehensible” that Christians who suffer often wind up more dedicated to God than less.

The fact is, the abundant life is a gift from above. We do not get it by striving or following ritual. Just as a child who is being born has played no role in h/his conception, growth and birth, so too being “born from above,” is beyond our effort. Being “born again” brings us into a very different existence. It gives us a literal connection with another dimension whereby the things that harm “those who live on the earth” do not have the power to destroy those who belong to the kingdom of God.

Those who live on the earth believe that life can be discovered only by examining physical evidence and combining that with reason. Gaining an intimate, healed and forgiven relationship with Jesus ushers us into a different kingdom, one that exists just beyond our senses. It is received, not attained. It is supernatural, not material.

The abundance that Jesus offers is a spiritual abundance that transcends life’s circumstances. It is not dependent on wealth or health or beauty or power or relationships. The abundant life is eternal and spiritual. Because my life is in Jesus, “You can kill me but I will not die”

12 comments:

Dan +†+ said...

Your words made me smile as I hold my newborn.

I witness to gang members unafraid and now they are more afraid of me then I of them. They attempted to intimidate me when I first moved here and they did not know what to do when I laughed, smiled and engaged them about God.

I am not afraid of any man. (Matthew 10:28)

The things God promises here on Earth are persecution, tribulations, and temptations.

Great post.

Makarios said...

God Bless Dan. Stay strong in peace and joy and perseverance.

Gandolf said...

Dan the same thing happens when some inexperienced folks deal with certain animals for instance.

Say if folks try chasing some type of birds away that are usually supposed to quickly scamper,maybe they be protecting young close by and react agressive instead, Instead coming back at the persons, who are trying to scare them away.

This unsettles the preconceived ideas a bit of what was first expected to happen.

Its natural that your very different approach to these gang mambers worrys them a little,because your strange action doesnt match the actions they alway usually expect to see and most often do experience with other people they are usually able to intimidate.

But be sure folks who seem unafraid of death, tend to worry other beings.Even animals are wary of things that seem unafraid,which is why a cats best chance of survival often is to just stand its ground against a angry and barking and larger dog.

Mak "Only ignorance could make such a statement. So what gives?"

Hi Mak what gives is they couldnt really write that these things were not likely to happen could they!.So if they knew these things were going to be very likely,the best deal left on offer for bible writers was to try and think of some story or idea up! to try to explain it away as being merely whats to be expected.A reverse type psychology, so people would then still retain "the" faith.

I suggest the claims of being "the" persecuted etc,might (at times) be a little far fetched and set fast in some old religious ideologies much more than any real honest fact.

Faith believers have often maybe been much more like the persecutors!, more than those being persecuted.

They have divided folks and seperated families and much much more.They have grouped and banded together often to stagnate any advance of science and such like for instance.They have so very very often tried forcing their faith on others!..And much more.

Much dislike of their faith beliefs has maybe not been anything to do with persecution, but often more a genuine rightious outrage of humanity for the many nasty aspects that some religion brings and forces on societys.

Just because stuff is written within faith books,doesnt simply make it to be any absolute truth or whats actually honest.

Makarios said...

Like I said.

Dan +†+ said...

>>Much dislike of their faith beliefs has maybe not been anything to do with persecution, but often more a genuine rightious [sic] outrage of humanity for the many nasty aspects that some religion brings and forces on societys.[sic]

That might be true for the false religions out there but you cannot just write that off about Christianity.

250 million Christians in 2007 were persecuted for their beliefs.

Abuses suffered by Christians include kidnapping, forced conversion, imprisonment, church destruction, torture, rape and execution.

All for a belief in something? Seems, unnaturally, frenzied to me, but God did say they would hate us. (John 15:18)

Thanks and Blessing to you also Makarios

Gandolf said...

Dan said"That might be true for the false religions out there but you cannot just write that off about Christianity."

Hi Dan but thats just the problem,all "religions" quite often are really all false.Im not blaming it all just on christianity.

You showing me another area where its the muslims and indians persecuting the christians,doesnt prove christianiy is a much better idea either.

Doesnt prove it to me anyway Dan.Though it does better prove the reasoning that most faith beliefs are very often troublesome in one way or another.From situation to situation and from one place to another place.Some areas it will be the muslim being oppressive some areas hindus other areas christians.

But its all still got lots and lots to do with religions.

I think we humans have already really always known religions are a problem and they annoy people, since about as far back in time as we humans can remember.We knew our faith beliefs were often disliked,so what did we do?Those who wrote the faith books went and wrote in the ministry also that the god/s HAD SAID it was what was to be expected.That faithful would be hated etc.

Bingo!.Problem solved.Became:Expected to happen.

So whenever religious folk happen to annoy people,and people get a bit peeved off about it! its supposedly just folks persecuting the religious.Even if its the religious persecuting the religious

Im not arguing persecution doesnt ever happen,but more that religion is deeply involved in it.Causing trouble.

For instance
1, take the fact almost all faiths try to convert people.
2,take the fact they mostly all, like to be really known as the "loving" and "forgiving" etc.

Then ask yourself why?? anything supposedly so ("loving" and "forgiving") would ever have need to try convert and change somebody??.

They needs to be "judgmentle" and "controling" thats what. To have need to try and convert someone.And be "selfrightous persectors" themselves already.

Religion its got next to nothing really that much to do with any, real simple "forgiveness" or "love"!

Religion kind of is the death piece of a genuine unconditional love

Dan +†+ said...

Most religions like Catholicism, Atheism, Mormonism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or Muslims are all false religions. God says that there is nothing that we can do to earn our way to heaven and that is what these religions are about, that if you follow that 5 pillars or confess your sins to a man or if you say hail to Mary, fast, meditate and do good works enough that it will get you to heaven. Nothing can be further from the truth.

I had a hang up about the word "religion", how we were linked with all the false religions out there. I believed religion destroys and keeps people away from God; I hated to be called religious, then someone wrote to me, which summed it up perhaps better then I could of said.

"That is, our religion is from the Creator. It is a result of our hope and trust in God. It is the natural fruit. False religions have stolen from God and not the other way around. False religions have a common denominator and that is there assault on the term "Justification." They are working toward their salvation. We are working as a result of our salvation.

A religion that is pure in the sight of God is a "discipline" which results and originates, from God. We do these things as a result of being justified. We do these things because God has declared us "not guilty" because of the passive/active obedience of the Messiah being given to us as a gift. His works are what save us. In contrast, the religions of the world who deny justification seek to bring their "religious" efforts to God to "save" them.

Don't let that word religion, be a hindrance. We as believers have a beautiful religion because it is a fruit which comes from God. It starts with him and ends with him. Like I said; the religion we show is a result of what God did. It is an external response. For example, we love because he first loved us right? The false religions out there have a completely different gospel. As a result they bring their filthy rags and present then to God thinking they are working their way to God. We have been made clean by the word. The false religions make themselves clean." (Moshe, carm.org)

Makarios said...

"They are working toward their salvation. We are working as a result of our salvation."

Perfect contrast. Thank you.

Gandolf said...

Dan nearly everything you wrote relys on the relgious book you read it from being totally honest.

Things you say rely totally on men not ever being deceitful when they write and record matters.

Just because its written and you read it doesnt prove it fact at all.

Thats always been the problem of religion,it relys often on "blind faith".

To be so faithful,common sense and logic needs to often first be abandoned.

Dan +†+ said...

Gandolf,

First, there is only one logical conclusion about the Bible and that is the truth of the claims. If common sense is used then you will find the truth in that Bible.

And Second, the only "blind faith" is that of the atheists. Folded arms and rejecting all evidence is not logical or reasonable.

An atheist cannot say they have 100% certainty based on a non experience, it is based on a belief still. They have a belief based on lack of experience or evidence, they remain uncertain (lack of assurance).

Do you admit that it is possible that an omniscient, omnipotent being could reveal some things to us, such that we can be certain of them?

Gandolf said...

1,

Dan +†+ said...
"Gandolf,First, there is only one logical conclusion about the Bible and that is the truth of the claims. If common sense is used then you will find the truth in that Bible."


logical conclusion-link Dan gave said.."Man could not set out to write a book of this size. He would not have the ideas of it, nor would man be able to produce the detail and precision of it. It presents God as THE God. It presents God as having a plan. It presents God only as deserving glory. It presents God as the absolute authority.

The unregenerate man could not subdue his own pride to produce such a God, nor could he exalt his talents to a level capable of producing such a book."

Hi again Dan, i respect you for having such faith Dan,but still dont have faith in it like you do.

I went to that link and read whats ive quoted above.And straight away the judgement was false in my opinion according to any decent honest reasonable logical thinking.They had a number of years to write and correlate stories and traditions and no bodies doubting that some parts of the religious story might have happened.This book did not need to be composed and written in any real hurry,they had plenty and plenty of time .."to produce the detail and precision of it"

Link said..."He would not have the ideas of it"

Dan even today men in cults everywhere come up with new religious ideas etc that his brethren then follow.Some they even have their own written ministry.

Just that link quote right there alone,i suggest is simply blatant dishonest false judgement.Man comes up with plenty of religious ideas! there is certainly no lack of them, thats for sure!.

It said.."The unregenerate man could not subdue his own pride to produce such a God"

It had nothing much to do with subduing pride Dan.It had everything to do with subduing "people" for the pride of those who wished them subdued.Those that wished the people subdued,also wished their wealth flowed into their own pockets and coffers.They wished to put a fear into people to control and indoctrinate them.

No need to subdue any pride Dan.The more pride the better! for thinking and writing these control beliefs and books...Look at the Benny Hinns etc of today ...You see the very same pride im talking about! at work...evolving and evolving.

The bible is just early ministry and history and culture mixed in.

Gandolf said...

2,

Dan

That link you gave me saying it:.."presents God as THE God. It presents God as having a plan. It presents God only as deserving glory. It presents God as the absolute authority."

Of course it does.Thats simple logic and reason being used!.

If i wanted to control folks i wouldnt portray my mythical god any other way.I would design a belief and then bible just like they did..Its simply using common sense!.

1,My god needs to demand "absolute authority" so people will obey and "glorify him" with gifts,that i can then claim some of.

2,My god needs a "plan" so there is something good i can tempt these people with.And another nasty "plan"(hell) for those who show any resistance in being tempted in this mythical god.

3,This mythical god needs to be presented as "God as THE God" ..He must be thought the one and only god !...As i dont want people worshiping other peoples gods...And giving other peoples gods money, that could be coming to "my god" and "me" !

Dan there is some good bits within religion, but a lot of it fraudulent im pretty sure.

And besides many of the good bits within religion, are simply just good things learned through human experiences and society living.

Dan said.."Do you admit that it is possible that an omniscient, omnipotent being could reveal some things to us, such that we can be certain of them?"

Ohh yes Dan thats why if im to be called a name, then im probably whats called agnostic/atheist.

But its very wrong to simply believe myths.Its dangerous.Its simply deceitful.Its immoral.Its whats bordering on anything that could actually even be classed whats evil.

My logic and reasoning suggests to "me",that any real god or omni whatever there may or may not be out there.....Would most certainly not (ever likely) want (guess work) and (fibs) driving peoples belief in him

Not if hes a honest and loving God.