Wednesday, November 4, 2009

atheists survive Christmas

Found this on an atheist's blog:

"Some of the country’s best known atheists will be exploring the science and philosophy of Christmas and offering advice on everything from how to put up your Christmas lights to what to read in the festive period."

10,000 children will starve to death TODAY
Some of the world's leading atheists will help you survive hearing someone say Merry Christmas

6,000,000 children, today, work as slaves in the sex trade
Some of the world's leading atheists will help you know what to do if someone says Bless You after you sneeze

War, genocide, mass starvation, natural disasters
Some of the world's leading atheists will tell you how to put up your Christmas lights and encourage you to protest displays of a baby in a manger

35 comments:

feeno said...

I once gave an Atheist a donut and he bitched at me for a hour because "it had a hole in it".

Late, feen

Ginx said...

Atheists aren't building churches while children starve. These sound like talks... so unless they're dedicating vast resources to spreading their ideology (rather than talking amongst like minded individuals), I don't think they can hold a candle to the religious folk.

Maybe it's disproportionate reactions like this that drive atheists to want to share their frustrations with others.

"I find Christians to be irritating around Christmas time."
"Yeah well six millions children are forced to work as sex slaves."

Great, now I'm irritated AND depressed.

Makarios said...

It IS depressing. It should be depressing. What are you doing to rescue children in need? And if your heart doesn't compel you to do something, maybe you need a change of heart because the status quo is not ok.

SE said...

What's the Christian "God" doing about the starving children? Zero, as usual!

Makarios said...

the Christian "God"

I didn't think you believed in God!

Gorth Satana said...

But you do, hence the comment.

Chris Mackey said...

Found this on some Christian's blog:
"So one of my kids turns nine today. My wife asked him what kind of a cake he wanted and he said, "A castle." I heard my wife groan and, being the awesome husband that I am, I said, "I'll do it." How hard can it be - right?

What a mess. I don't know how much cake decorators make but whatever it is, it ain't enough
."

10,000 children will starve to death TODAY.
And some Christians will be partying with cake.

...Etc.

Julie said...

I suspect you're referring to Ariane Sherine's new book? I just finished it. I think one person discusses Christmas lights.

The rest discuss other atheist issues from their loss of faith, to the commercialism of a religions holiday, to the real pagan roots of the December celebration, to indeed the starving children around the world.

And yes, some of the authors discuss these concerns with the aid of humor. It's a humorous book. I just checked a christian book website; there are humor books there as well. What a new concept for the publishing industry! Books that make people laugh!

Makarios said...

This is our world Gorth, to do with as we please. WE are killing these children. WE through our greed and corrupt self-love are using and abusing children. WE are standing around and watching it happen. And you wonder why God is so angry?

Chris: Every single one of the kids that we've adopted would have been high, high candidates for living on the street and /or in jail, drug addiction, and prostitution and / or crime to survive.

How many children have you adopted?
=================

I suspect you're referring to Ariane Sherine's new book?"

No, it had to do with some atheist conference, I think in Australia.

Makarios said...

Actually you're right. There are more than enough Christians in the world to take all the children in need. We're as guilty as you.

feeno said...

Hello Chris Mackey

Although this question may sound a little snotty it truly is not meant to be. I really am just looking for answers to see why people respond the way they do. I noticed from your blog profile you were once a "Christian". When you were a Christian how did you feel about other Believers, and how did you feel about Atheists? People like you (ex-christians who now have become atheists) were the reason I wrote my first blog. I was curios to know why ex-christians seemed so mad at people they used to sit next to in a pew and presumably be friends with? And latch on with such fervor to the Atheist mantra? If you feel like sharing I'll be checking back by. Peace be with you. feeno

Ginx said...

An issue can shock my conscious and even make me wish I could do something, but what am I supposed to do for children in the sex trade, or even ones who are hungry? Throw money into an organization that assures me they are working to help? Abandon my life (which for me wouldn't be asking that much, TBH), and go work first-hand to combat the problems?

The first solution seems disingenuous and lazy, while the second seems simultaneously naive and heroic. I would prefer to just keep what I'm doing: not frequenting under-age prostitutes.

Ginx said...

oy, shock the conscience...

Makarios said...

"not frequenting under-age prostitutes."

That's a good start. Or like the young atheist said last year when encouraged to give blood on World Day of Prayer, "Can't I just fuck around and watch tv if I want?"

Chris Mackey said...

Freeno,
"Although this question may sound a little snotty it truly is not meant to be. I really am just looking for answers to see why people respond the way they do."
No worries, question doesn't sound snotty at all. But there'll be as many different answers as there are people.

I've always been this kind of person but when I was a Christian they called it "on fire for the Lord".

feeno said...

Thanx Chris, late, freeno

Gandolf said...

Mak wrote.."10,000 children will starve to death TODAY
6,000,000 children, today, work as slaves in the sex trade
War, genocide, mass starvation, natural disasters"

We humans now have a very lost and divided society with many different faiths! and with more splits and divides happening, and many many newly nameded churches and faith groups etc forming each and every single year.Like has been happening for thousands of years now.

Our society as a whole becomes more and more segemented yearly,and faiths are often at the very HELM of that thats always helped make it much more possible to happen.

If societies were less segmented and divided etc would we have possibly less of the disasters above?.Id say maybe.It say there would be a better chance anyway.Id even bet most likely

I dont see how faiths can so (HONESTLY) make any claim to the high road ??, and try blame and beat the non believers up now for ALL the divisions and ALL lacking of caring etc there is seen around us.That to me is just a very unfair rip off!.

The faithful have played a very very large part in how it has all happened.

Remember.

Who?? were the ones that actually taught our societies about seperation,shunning,without are the dogs,you reap what you sow"and let allahs wrath came down upon them,i come not to bring peace but like a sword to divide,etc,etc

Religious faiths did.Thats who.

Non believers could have much stronger charities and a much better society.But the society feeling that faiths have helped tear apart need to first be reformed.

That whats already taken (thousands of years)now to be slowly ripped apart and destroyed.

Is not so likely to simply be easily repaired quickly overnight now is it.Lets be real about it.

feeno said... "I once gave an Atheist a donut and he bitched at me for a hour because "it had a hole in it".Late, feen"

Hi again Mr Feenologist..You sure you didnt offer the nice fat juicy donut!!,but instead only pass him one of those skimpy lil holey water crackers from the Vatican??

Ginx said...

So... giving blood helps child slaves? Maybe picking up litter feeds starving kids! :P

feeno said...

Big G

The ones from the Vatican are Holy. The ones I give out just have holes.

Also, you could never win an argument with anyone who is being honest what the "Christian" religions have done around the world to try to stop atrocities. They have sent missionaries all over the world fighting hunger, building hospitals, teaching people how to dig wells, grow crops, build houses, build schools and clothe these people.

They don't care what nation, tongue, tribe these people are from. They don't care how dangerous the place their called to go is, and most importantly they are not doing it for any other reason except to show God's love through physical needs.

I'm not saying the non-religious don't do these things, and that's it's not appreciated, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what Christian missionaries accomplish.

Mother Teresa worked her whole life with people suffering from aids, lepers, the poorest of the poor, and the sickest of the sick. And as special as she was, she is just one of tens of thousands of ambassadors of the church sent out with money solely given by the religious.

What can we do about a hurting, hungry and dying world? Take advice from Mother Teresa "in this life we can not do great things, we can only do small things with great love".

So Chris, if your reading this, Mak can't save 10,000 kids from starving today, but he can love those 6or8 he's adopted and feed and love them.

Peace be with you all, feeno

Tristan Vick said...

These are some of the fine secular groups I support financially and otherwise.

CP80
http://www.cp80.org/

UNICEF
http://www.unicef.org/

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx

So what's your point Makarios? Not all Christians donate to charity, or to support humanitarian causes, or help medical research. Not when there are Mega-church Pastors making over 90 million American dollars a year. I'm curious, does Joel Olsteen give away over 80% of his mega-buck earnings to help mollify the world's suffering? Because Bill Gates and Warren Buffett did.

I mean, if you're implying that atheists, secularists, humanists, freethinkers, and all nonbelievers don't give to charity, when clearly, it appears the opposite is true even on the small scale.

And as I sated before, I believe it is like Thomas Paine once wisely replied when asked what his official religion was, "My religion is to do good."

Hugo said...

feeno: I'm not saying the non-religious don't do these things, and that's it's not appreciated, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what Christian missionaries accomplish.

The problem here is that everybody knows that historically there are always been very few atheists, so of course they are less visible in the charity things too...

And Christians love to point out the % of Atheits as to convince themselves that they are on the good "side", and then they say that Atheits do much less... well at least it's coherant, but I still don't see the point!

But the most important point, and I always bring it back because people seem to forget... no matter if people believe in God or not, they do good things because it's good!!


Oh and feeno, can I answer that question quickly too:
I was curios to know why ex-christians seemed so mad at people they used to sit next to in a pew and presumably be friends with?

Personnally I did not change my attitude toward anybody. I am actually much more open minded toward all religions now that I am an Atheist because I have been learning a lot about them... but I am at the same time more convince than ever before that they are all wrong, and I am not afraid to say why. This has nothing to do with critisizing an individual of course, but people tend not to understand that...

See ya guys, leaving for New Zealand for 3 weeks Saturday morning so I will probably won't write again here...

Vacations!! yeah!! :D

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak wrote: like the young atheist said last year when encouraged to give blood on World Day of Prayer, "Can't I just fuck around and watch tv if I want?"

Yessir, you can certainly do that if you want. You certainly won't go to hell because no such place exists (or at least appears to be extremely improbable). However, I think you will find life a lot less satisfying than if you lived a life which was morally exemplary. I suggest that you read Hugh Mackay's: RIGHT & WRONG: how to decide for yourself - it will do far more for your moral fitness than the Bible.

JD Curtis said...

the most important point, and I always bring it back because people seem to forget... no matter if people believe in God or not, they do good things because it's good!!

And who can we thank for the modern concept of charity and private giving Hugo? It wasnt Robespierre I assure you.

Gandolf said...

Feenologist say.."Big G..The ones from the Vatican are Holy. The ones I give out just have holes."

Either one, somethings still missing .One got a hole, the others full of holes or something.Its like some salvation type bank account,you pay for your sins in.


Hugo said.."The problem here is that everybody knows that historically there are always been very few atheists, so of course they are less visible in the charity things too..."


Thats the point feeno,like hugo says,historically so far more people have just been christian or faithful thats all.So naturally the statistic is saying they gave more.

If less people were faithful the statistics for who gave the most would then swing and be naturally favoring the atheists instead.Why?, simply because now there is more atheist! than faithful thats why.

Feeno doing it your way (gaining by power of numbers),you think is fair judgement to say its any better?.

You are trying to put forward the argument that we are better with faith because of the charity that supposedly comes with it.

That not such a logical or even very fair argument in my mind.I dont see charity, being only connected to faith at all.In my opinion you just supposed wrong.

Many faith charitys even recieve donations from the (non believer)donators too,which is then all claimed as the "faithful" charity monies total only.Those secular who donated,lose the count of their donation to the faith fund.

You claiming charity as being more (connected to folks of faith,)is a rip off in my books.Its only related to numbers of faithful folk there is thats all.

And like ive already talked to you about feeno,it can also make people/families less able to even be charatable.
With divisions that often happen through faith belief in families/tribes etc,the power of (collctive wealth) within those family/tribe then becomes "divided" also.

Meaning they all are even less likely to even be able to be as giving to charity!.Than they would have been able to be,if nasty faith didnt divide their family/tribe

You trying to connect charity to folks of faith.Is superimposing that most likely without faith all those people would just no longer be giving and charatable etc.Thats false.

That conclusion mostly come down to being mistaken and still believing longterm propaganda.

When really non faith charity, is the very greatest best test there is for a more honest type of charity.

As with secular charity there is no prize to be won for a heavenly holiday anymore,its now all about just you simply being caring about helping others thats all.

And whats even better!! we dont have the Benny Hinns and freeflow Dollar men anymore.With their scooping off the cream by getting folks to think they are like some god.Hmmmm??

Feenologist my friend, personally i cant help thinking you have a very wrong opinion of folks who dont go to faith churches.

Its like you seem to be of this thinking, that once we get outside your churchdoor its like absolutely no body in the world actually ever going to give a damn about each other anymore.

What the rub with that ????

Where do you live again ??

Hell we stil got all sorts of people helping each other over where i live.If i relied on faith charity to get by in my life,man i would have been shit out of luck plenty of times.People dont need faith to care and help.It faith was what made any real difference,many times even just in my own life i would have been right up shit creek without a paddle.It wasnt faith why folks helped,its really always just been a simply human tradition to do so.Its because we evolved to know helping each other was what worked best.

Claiming faith is connected to charity.Is just using the statistic that there is (more faithful folk in the world).Its a false equation.

You dont prove faith charity to be any better by simply using the statistic of numbers.Thats false,creative acounting.

And all the time the many Hinns,freeflow A dollar types etc are still fleecing coffers flat out! clean as they can! .

Gandolf said...

JD Curtis said... "And who can we thank for the modern concept of charity and private giving Hugo? It wasnt Robespierre I assure you."

Humans evolved with generous actions and benevolent feelings,as it was also intended for benefits of their very "own survival" as well as others.

Its likely it didnt even take much intelligence for a caveman to even soon learn,helping other families during times of good hunting.Was also a benefit to your own family and yourself when sometimes you had periods of bad hunting yourself.

It was almost as easy to learn,as it was to also learn that two people draging on the tail of prey trying to drag it along!, was better than one person trying to do all the dragging all on his own.

Pure common sense!!..Religion/faith needed??negative! not needed.Zilch.Zero.None

It was survival.It worked best.It made families and tribes etc much stronger collectivly overall.

Using tyrant Robespierre the bloodthirsty dictator, proves little about where charity is based.Its another false argument.Creative accounting.

JD Curtis said...

Humans evolved with generous actions and benevolent feelings,as it was also intended for benefits of their very "own survival" as well as others.

Please cite the naturalists that began charity/private giving as we know it. SPECIFICALLY Who started it? Who demonstrated that it's a good thing to do? What was their motivation in the beginning ?

Gandolf said...

JD Curtis said..."Please cite the naturalists that began charity/private giving as we know it. SPECIFICALLY Who started it? Who demonstrated that it's a good thing to do? What was their motivation in the beginning ?"

Its simply common sense really, but i suppose some folks dont have much good use of common sense these days.They tend to always need a book or teacher to teach them everything, kind of like robots.

JD Curtis in my own country the maori were the first here documented to have had tribal charity.During tough times they had always shared with other folks,and were known to help other neighbouring tribes out from time to time.

These tribal situations everywhere all over the world go back to the very "roots" of where charity (first began).Its naturally a good thing to do as ive already explained,because everyone has tough times and so it was soon learned sharing was all part of humans survival overall also.Part of their motivation was "survival",those who shared obviously had better chances.Part was emotion,because humans are "social beings" and care.

JD Curtis.. Do you really tell me you dont believe at all,that any charity ever existed in tribes etc,before religion was introduced??.

That religion has becoming the biggest "collection" "agencys" of charity funds doesnt prove that charity is based on religion.It only proves religion has now become the biggest "agencys" thats all.

Hugo said...

@Gandolf : JD Curtis in my own country the maori were the first here documented to have had tribal charity

Hey!! Had you noticed what I wrote a bit further up here? Or is it just a coincidence that you mentioned the maoris here? What are the odds? lol

My best example of natural charity is experiments done with monkeys. They putted two monkeys in two separate cages, and each one of them needed the help the other to be able to get food. One needed a stick, for example, and the other happened to have a stick, and so you get the idea of what happened. The monkeys even got to ask for the stick. They were begging for help. Why do you help someone who begs for help? Isn't that a form of charity? ANyway but it's more than that of course, just giving the big picture... too bad I don't have a link right now, it was on TV :(

Anyway, no time to write more, as written above again, lol, because I have other stuff to do...

ciao

Gandolf said...

Hugo said.."Hey!! Had you noticed what I wrote a bit further up here? Or is it just a coincidence that you mentioned the maoris here? What are the odds? lol"

Yeah hope you enjoy yourself over here Hugo!!.

If you like the great outdoors best,i recommend the south island.The south island has only one third the population the north island has, and twice as much land area.

The south island has much more nature and native timberlands etc .The south island has more rivers and supplys the north island with hydro power also.

Hugo said...

"i recommend the south island"

Two weeks on the south, and one week on the north! :)

We already have an intense schedule prepared, Queenstown, Te Anau, Franz Joseph, Nelson, Wellington, Lake Taupo, Auckland, phew...

One of the guy I am with is a schedule freak, so everything is almost to the minute, lol

Gandolf said...

Hugo said.."We already have an intense schedule prepared, Queenstown, Te Anau, Franz Joseph, Nelson, Wellington, Lake Taupo, Auckland, phew..."

You have planned your holiday well.

When you travel through franz Joseph up to Nelson,you will be experiencing the particular neck of the woods i actually live in.

It is very beautiful country!,one caution for traveling up the west coast(frans Joseph) if you are driving and want to stay living .Please please follow the speed signs exactly! dont believe you can go any faster than the signs actually says.Anywhere else you can get away with a little more speed,but not anywhere near or on the actual westcoast.They often made the suggested speeds the max amount poss.

And make sure to buy some mosquito/sandfly repellent.They mossy are not at all dangerous and dont even eat much of you,but you will just enjoy yourself better.They are only pesky at certain times,but im just telling you so you have some repellent to aid your enjoyment.Repellents cheap.

We have no dangerous wild animals or killer spiders or bugs anywhere in NZ.Just be careful walking off into any bush,its we just dont like our friends from away becoming lost thats all.Some folks dont realize its easy to get lost here when in the bush if you not careful or properly prepared.

In the north island (maybe) make sure you plan for some time enjoying the natural hot water springs in the "Lake Taupo" area it seems you will be also traveling through.That is if you enjoy natural hot water springs.Just a tip for that area.

I think who ever planned this trip made some very good choices!.Lots and lots of very very scenic country,i suggest dont forget the camera!.

Nice one Hugo

Hugo said...

@Gandolf

Thanks! already have my bug repellent and camera ready ;)
I am glad you approve our schedule, your in a good position to do so!

cheers

JD Curtis said...

the maori were the first here documented to have had tribal charity

Interesting. In what year was this "documented".

JD Curtis said...

Please note that I'm not doubting you Gandolf. I'd just like to read more about this. Have a good trip Hugo!

Gandolf said...

JD Curtis the Maori word for charity is Aroha

See:http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translation/maori/aroha

http://homepages.
paradise.net.nz/arohanet/arohaorg/page9.html

The Māori believed that Aroha is the force that binds the universe together.

JD .. This is a good artical to some understanding of the Moari people.And how life and society etc was structured.

http://www.law.auckland.
ac.nz/webdav/site/law/shared/about/centres%20and%20associations/te-tai-haruru/documents/mdr2006.pdf


Some early newspapers..

http://www.google.com/search?q=earliest+documented+history+of+maori+
tribes&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-nz&sa=X&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=JSH1SuT9KJiCkAX
a9tm4Aw&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=
11&ved=0CCcQ5wIwCg


More written documented history is available in librarys than i can find online JD....Captain Cook most likely wrote some of the first stuff.Although a dutch explorer made a quick visit about a hunded or so years befor captain cook did, 1600-1700?.

It needs to be remembered New Zealand hasnt really been colonized that long.I think its only been about, 200-230 years since europeans first arrived to settle here.

I can look and find more stuff if it really worrys you.

The benevolent type attitude is still very strong within maori family and tribal circles even today.I think this strength is whats maybe helped them retain so much of their original culture, when many other tribal people from other lands have lost their own.

Hope you find some of this stuff interesting.

P.S ..Gift in maori is called Koha