There is a huge difference between how atheists and spiritual people see the world. I call what Christians possess as “Wide Band Awareness.” We know that there is more to life than what meets the senses. Atheists COULD experience more of life but they have deliberately restricted their knowledge to that which the senses can perceive. They have deliberately restricted the amount of knowledge they can attain. This has been done for one reason and one reason only. To allow themselves contact with that which is outside of nature would pose a grave threat to the atheist world-view.
This is unfortunate because it keeps the atheist from knowing h/herself to the fullest extent possible. While that type of life CAN be lived, it is a very second rate type of living. It’s a life where any admission of weakness, or flaw must be avoided. For to admit weakness or flaw implies a need for help or assistance.
As someone who longs to follow Jesus, I know that I am weak and that I behave in ways that I cannot explain beyond, “I’m an asshole.” Unlike atheists, I cannot be a good person without His help, His influence, His guidance. Unlike atheists, I AM weak. I Am in need of help. It’s been my consistent experience that God is a God of love and justice. I know that God will see me through it all. God wants us to understand what He is doing in our lives; He wants us to see and to discern how it is that He is changing us. This takes time because we are so slow to obey, and only as we obey do we “see” morally and spiritually. John 7:17
Atheists are not just blind in this regard. They are willfully blind. They purposely avoid knowing themselves as fully as possible. Because they ignore the evidence of His creation they are free to deny the existence of Creator God.
Even if the news is grim, I want to know myself better. I want to know my Saviour better. Lord open the eyes of my heart so that I might obey and thereby understand.
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Unlike atheists, I cannot be a good person without His help, His influence, His guidance. Unlike atheists, I AM weak. I Am in need of help.
I'm not sure why that's a slam on me.
I wish the word "slam" didn't fit. I don't want to be that kind of blogger. Really! I'm guilty, guilty, guilty of saying things in a harsh manner. (((sigh)))
Anyhow, I'll let C. S. Lewis answer your question.
"No one knows how bad she is until she tries really hard to be good. A good person knows of the evil still left in her, while a thoroughly bad person actually believes that she is good."
We were doing a thing on the good Samaritan in our adult class yesterday. Because of the counselling that I do, mostly with people in our congregation, I know that there were people in that class who, while not Samaritans per se, and while not physically beat up, were visibly wounded - visible at least to those willing to look and listen. Yet no one stops by to help. Gottal go, gotta go, gotta go, busy, busy, busy. And we are. I get that.
However, I know, I know, I know that the people in that class who do the most for others will be the ones feeling the greatest pull to do more for the hurting while those who do the least will be feeling pretty good about the little that they do.
It’s just how we’re wired.
I think that one of the most dangerous beliefs of atheism is, "I don't need God in order to be a good person." It's dangerous because in order to believe that you don't need God, you must force yourself to believe that you are in fact a good person. Our world can't afford to have a bunch of people who believe they aren't in need of improvement.
We the people of the world are drowning in our own corruption and only we - you and I - can change that by changing ourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS_Uvg56U_o
I'm pasting this from the other post because, I want an answer. It's impossible to have a debate in this place when you post 143 million posts a day. Just when one gets interesting you've moved along so here is my post again..
"Snack - if you didn't get it the first time, you most certainly won't get it the second time either."
Makarios, your still avoiding my question. I'm worried that you can't answer it. I'm wondering if your too dull and slow to understand what I'M saying. If there was an imaginary entity whom existed under the restriction of ONLY having the capacity to observe the course of free will as it plays out, without relation to creation, than one could see how what your suggesting could be validly said, HOWEVER...
God is directly responsible for the path existence takes, not as a passive observer, but as the designer of the path itself. It isn't just that he knows the outcome, but its part of his design. It isn't free will, if you were already going to do it! There's no part in that scenario that IS FREE! what part of that don't YOU understand? Freedom requires a choice, if it was pre-chosen for you, it isn't a choice.
I really think you can't wrap your head around the idea of free will being an illusion under the god scenario. It doesn't matter if you wake up and decide to eat eggs in the morning, if you were always going to pick eggs that morning, it only seems like you had a choice, but to have sausage defies god's vision of how the whole thing plays out, and directly contradicts what we believe about an all powerful creator. And to defy god's vision, suggests god never knew.
IF god put everything in motion, than all motion is his choice, if its his choice, than its not yours, free will cannot be given.
I can only repeat that so many times. Your telling me that if i didn't get it the first time, i never will, but you didn't say anything the first time. You simply declared that atheists just don't get it. that's not an argument.
ONE MORE TIME...
". Knowing the future is not the same as determining, or fixing or creating the future."
- True, but that doesn't apply to god, because god simultaneously knows AND determines the future. Therefore your distinction between knowing and determining is pointless text and has nothing to do with the argument of free will as it pertains to god. next...
". God’s knowing beforehand the free-will decisions that you are going to make, does not take away from your free-will ability to make those decisions. "
- Your words are slippery, because they are formed to neglect the argument by saying "god KNOWING BEFOREHAND". This is incomplete. Yes he knows before hand, but that doesn't accurately describe his role, as he, NOT ONLY knows before hand, but ALSO DETERMINES beforehand, as well. To argue otherwise is like applying the physics of space without time, the two are attached and function as such. And god determining before hand does indeed take away from your free will decision, because it was never your decision. It was determined, makarios.
Am I still not getting it? Is the idea above me? Perhaps I cannot grasp the genius that is makarios? Give me a break, if you wanna respond like a grown up, I would appreciate that.
He's gonna tell ya that "you just don't get it!"
" It's impossible to have a debate in this place when you post 143 million posts a day. Just when one gets interesting you've moved along "
Get used to it. I figured that out a few months ago.
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