Thursday, January 7, 2010

Worth Reading

If your an atheist, Christian or anything in between this is a post that is worth reading, containing a video clip worth watching.

http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/01/07/atheist-circular-alogic-designed-designer/

15 comments:

Ginx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ginx said...

I actually read and commented on this when it was posted over at Atheism is Dead. It's a big long nothing about how there doesn't need to be a designer for the designer.

I'll step you through the very simple logic, so you can see why it is ID that is alogical:

1. A designer is require for all things that exist (especially complex things).
2. God either requires a designer or does not exist.

If #1 is inaccurate, God can exist and could come about without any designer... but then so can anything and everything.

It has nothing to do with no beginning or end, it has nothing with do with a prime mover or first cause. It's all about inserting God into science so there's a place for that garbage in the future, even as religion becomes more obsolete with each passing minute.

There will be a place for religion in the future. It will be taught in "History."

Makarios said...

There will be a place for religion in the future. It will be taught in "History."

In your dreams Ginx. So what about his questions,

Why is it that matter doesn't need a cause but God does?

Why is it that matter can be eternal but God can't?

Zzzst said...

Do Quantum fluctuations have a cause?

Zzzst said...

Ginx:
There will be a place for religion in the future. It will be taught in "History."

"True" religions come and go, are born and die but as long as people are afraid of the unknown or are uneducated, I believe religions will exist.

Makarios said...

Do Quantum fluctuations have a cause?

absolutely. They exist in something, come from something and return to something.

Anonymous said...

CAUSALITY breaks down at the subatomic level

Van said...

Quantum fluctuations are likely the causes both of the universe and the formation of galactic structures.

The easiest way to explain why the universe was born of a quantum fluctuation is to approach it from an information theory perspective. The presence or absence of a particle, say an electron, can be taken as a zero or a one, respectively. If all of space time is reduced to two boxes of Planck's length dimensionality, and there was only one electron in the universe, then this case would violate the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle for the following reason. If you look at one of the boxes and it's empty, then the electron would have to be in the other box (no indeterminacy in terms of position) and it's momentum would have to be such that in the next time instant it was in the empty box (no indeterminacy in terms of momentum). Ergo, the box can't be empty and a particle must appear to be in both boxes simultaneously.

The conditions just before the big bang were such that the universe didn't exist. And space was at or possibly below Planck's distance cubed. Absolute non-existence violates Heisenberg Uncertainty, so the universe had to pop into existence. Consequently, there was a big bang.

Of course, the very earliest stages of the universe and before that, if such a concept has any meaning, are topics of speculation, still. This is an active area of research in physics and has many mysteries still to be revealed. Nevertheless, I think the way I look at it has merit, in that absolute nothingness (absolute zero) is unattainable because it violates Heisenberg Uncertainty. So no universe isn't a sustainable condition and the universe must pop into existence.

I like the Penrose notion that the universe will expand until its density reaches a low enough level and temperature gets low enough that the universe is effectively empty (zero) and therefore, it pops in a new big bang and the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum.

Zzzst said...

absolutely. They exist in something, come from something and return to something.

Is a vacuum something?
Is nothing something?

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