Wednesday, July 1, 2009

One More Followup

Is this or is this NOT what atheists believe?

"Everything (the universe) came from nothing by natural means."

Or let's make it less dramatic.

"Anything can come from nothing by natural means."

Do atheists or do they not believe these statements to be true?

And if they do, being logical, reasonable, rational and scientifically minded, atheists would never believe anything with out verifiable evidence to back them up. Right? That is correct isn't it?

Now, some goof has asked me for evidence to back up my statement that everything came from Something that was outside of and prior to nature, i.e., something Super Natural.

Unfortunately, since the only thing that atheists consider to be impossible and have therefore a priori rejected(meaning before any evidence is examined) IS the Super Natural, the evidence that I have would be rejected by the closed, and narrow minded atheist.

12 comments:

OlderMusicGeek said...

why do you hate atheists so much? i thought you were suppose to love the sinner.

so why are you so condenscending and insulting?

and don't tell me about how insulting they are. first off, only some are, others are respectful. secondly, you shouldn't condemn something if you're willing to do it.

Makarios said...

I find the atheist world-view absolutely absurd, irrational, illogical and incoherent. On the other hand, any atheists that I've met are actually pretty nice people.

Now it's my turn. How can you comment before I've even finished publishing my post? Like, how does that work?

Mixter said...

How, exactly, do you know what atheists believe? We DON'T believe in a god. THAT is what we have in common. How can you profess to know what atheists do believe? You can't know that.

Why, exactly, do you care what atheists believe? Why does it matter to you? What does our non-belief do to you that makes you care about it so much?

Where, exactly, do you get those statements that atheists supposedly believe to be true? I don't know how the universe came to be, and quite frankly I don't care. I do know, however, that the god business doesn't make sense. So, instead of hating on the atheists, why don't you prove to them the existence of your god?

By the way, so far I have not been subject to the wrath of God that Paul was talking about in Romans (your previous post). When should I be expecting that?

Mixter

Còmhradh said...

"Everything (the universe) came from nothing by natural means."

Or let's make it less dramatic.

"Anything can come from nothing by natural means."


This is equivalent to saying:

"one plus one equals two.

Or let's make it less dramatic.

Any two numbers added together equal two."

The first one is correct. The second one is not, and does not have any connection to the first one besides a few similar words.

Albert Ip said...

Atheists do not believe in a god. Theists believe their god comes from nothing.

Stan, the Half-Truth Teller said...

Is this your game? Really? Because if it is, it's weak.

Is this or is this NOT what Christians believe?

"Unicorns are described in the bible."
 

Do you see the problem here? Clearly, some Christians believe unicorns are described in the bible, as with the goons over at AiG, and clearly, some do not. Clearly, some Christians believe in a six-literal-day creation event, and some accept "theistic evolution."

You seek to generalize for a group known for being impossible to corral, and evidently think nothing of it.

I'll tell you what. I'll ask you a simple question, and see if you can guess why it's relevant:

Do humans believe lightning is a manifestation of supernatural anger? 

That's it. That's the question. Answer it at your own peril.

--
Stan

No Guy in the Sky said...

Mak - You are completely stupid. Atheists are not running around discussing how the universe began, or if matter comes from nothing. Christians do that! You do that! Atheists do not believe in magical sky sugar daddys.

If atheists are active in atheism. They are laughing with other atheists at how stupid theists are. You are one I am laughing at. If atheist is not laughing at theists, they are doing regular stuff. Like working, living, loving and relaxing. Etc.

You can not logically argue any evidence for a god. Your damn bible is the worst written piece of trash. EVER! God writes/inspires book. Whole thing is full of mistake after mistake. They can not even get the best part right. Everybody saw Jesus resurrected, but none of them saw the same thing. Or even close.

Nobody knows where the universe or the shit in it came from. Yet. God is a child's answer.

Makarios said...

"What does our non-belief do to you that makes you care about it so much?"

I think I already answered that. I find the atheist world-view absolutely absurd, irrational, illogical and incoherent. There would not be anything "wrong" with that except atheists like to tell us what rational, logical, reasonable people they are. I feel compelled to respond to the absurdity.

Froggie said...

Mak,
Since you asked,
"Is this or is this NOT what atheists believe?
"Everything (the universe) came from nothing by natural means."

It is obvious that you have not done any study on possible pre-universe scenarios.
I do not believe the universe came from "nothing." I don't know of any of my aquaintences that do.

"Or let's make it less dramatic.
"Anything can come from nothing by natural means."
Where are you coming up with this horsemanure? Sounds like you are chanelling Ray Comfort.
The only reason you fundies say this is because you think it is an insult but in fct, it merely highlights your ignorance.
You might want to describe this "nothingness" that you say we believe existed. You made it up so you may as well define it.

"Do atheists or do they not believe these statements to be true?"
I certainly do not. That is evidence that you are wrong.

"And if they do.....,"
But I do not. "......being logical, reasonable, rational and scientifically minded, atheists would never believe anything with out verifiable evidence to back them up. Right? That is correct isn't it?"
That is generally true.
There are things that I do not know and I do not mind admitting that.

"Now, some goof has asked me for evidence to back up my statement that everything came from Something that was outside of and prior to nature, i.e., something Super Natural."
That sounds like a reasonable question. Where is your proof?

"Unfortunately, since the only thing that atheists consider to be impossible and have therefore a priori rejected(meaning before any evidence is examined) IS the Super Natural,....."
You are full of it. I was involved in theology and searching for evidence for the supernatural for 23 years before I became an atheist

"...... the evidence that I have would be rejected by the closed, and narrow minded atheist."

Hogwash. You know full well that all you have is your worn out cultural artifact, the bible, loaded with contradictions, inconsistencies, and absurdities.
The old testament came together as a control mechanism while trying to make sense of their pre scientific existence.

You continue to state that the atheist non belief is absurd but you have yet to put together a unified explanation as to why.

I, personally do not regard your theism as absurd, it is merely that you were culturally conditioned to this. You are trapped. You are imprisoned by your irrational beliefs.

Makarios said...

"It is obvious that you have not done any study on possible pre-universe scenarios."

Actually, it’s obvious that I have. Not only is there NO evidence for ANY of the following, Oscillating universe - Baby universes - Multi verses - The Cyclic Ekpyrotic Scenario - The Chaotic Inflationary universe - Brane-cosmology - Inflationary multi-verse - Bubble universes floating in a sea of false vacuum -The many worlds hypothesis - The black hole hypothesis - Quantum gravity models - Vacuum fluctuation models Imaginary time and imaginary space -

neither are they workable in any sense from the perspective of known and knowable science. Every single one of these models are nothing more than atheist origin of the universe mythologies.

This is because each and every one of them requires a beginning, a singularity, a definitive space / time boundary a Creation event with a Creator.
=============

“I do not believe the universe came from "nothing." I don't know of any of my aquaintences that do.”

What you are in fact saying is that as an atheist, you are willing to reject the findings of science, and reject Big Bang cosmology all because it points to a metaphysical, supernatural Cause. That’s sad.
================

“You made it up so you may as well define it.”

If you care to study Big Bang, you'll find that people much smarter than you and I put together have found that the Second Law of Thermodynamics rules out the possibility of the universe existing from infinity past. As well, Background radiation, Known levels of entropy and the Expanding universe confirm the truth of the 2nd Law > The universe had a beginning.
=============

"That is generally true. There are things that I do not know and I do not mind admitting that."

I’m not asking you to admit to not knowing some things. That’s a given for all of us. What I’m saying is that you, as an atheist, as someone who says that because you’re rational and logical etc. etc. ONLY believe things for which you have evidence. That is obviously a lie.
==============

“while trying to make sense of their pre scientific existence.”

Like I say, they did pretty good, stating precisely what modern philosophers and scientists have agreed is correct. The universe came about as a result of a singularity from nothing.
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OlderMusicGeek said...

i just hit comment. i don't why it worked that way.

Mixter said...

To claim there is a Big Sky Daddy who is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving and who intervenes in this world is absolutely absurd, irrational, illogical and incoherent.

Mixter