Sunday, August 23, 2009

Day’s of Innocence

Do you remember those days? Days when the level of evil was “just right” not too much but just enough to make things exciting?

What people don’t realise is that our stopping point, our line in the sand, our enough is enough, well, that’s our children’s starting line. Where we adults say, “No more,” our children say, “What else?” I don’t even know what or who is at the top of sleaze any more but I can tell you this. One day, fifteen or twenty years from now, people will look back at the days of Marilyn Manson and such and see them as the good old days, the days of innocence. When life was safe.

11 comments:

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak, what do you mean by evil? I know that you include wrong done to man by man. But is lightning striking a child evil? I am very interested to know how you define the term.

JD Curtis said...

Mak. I'm going to add a link to your site over at my blog.

JD Curtis said...

I'll let Mak answer for himself TAM, but for me, "evil" constitutes acts that can be performed and done by individuals who were given the freedom to effect a full range of options to do whatever they wanted to by a powerful, ever-living God. Not really something that God himself created and let loose on the world.

The Atheist Missionary said...

Using JD's definition, lightning striking a child would not constitute evil unless you are some twisted fundie who believes that man's sin is responsible for natural disasters. In any event, I am waiting for Mak's definition. Also, is it evil for a human to kill an ape? A fetus? A cow? An ant? I just want to understand exactly what you guys mean when you use the term evil.

Makarios said...

what do you mean by evil?"

Anything contrary to the desire and the will of Creator God.

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak, I'm not going to let you off that easily.

Is lightning striking a child evil? Yes or no and why?

Is it evil for a human to kill an ape? A fetus? A cow? An ant? I epeat - I just want to understand exactly what you guys mean when you use the term evil.

Glen20 said...

"Anything contrary to the desire and the will of Creator God."

You'd think an omnipotent being could get what he wanted but...

Makarios said...

Glen:
"You'd think an omnipotent being could get what he wanted but..."

He can and He has. He has created the best thing in the universe, free agents who are able to give and to know real Love - or to reject and to not know real love.

Right now love is optional. It depends on our free will decisions. Someday soon it will be the norm for those of God's choosing to live for an eternity in a community of love and healing.
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TAM:
"Is lightning striking a child evil? Yes or no and why?"

God does not cause thunder and lightening. It's something to do with positive and negative charges.
For what it's worth, I've been hit by lightening. I was about 15 and out on a machine cutting grain. Except for a heat blistered ear and a bruise on my chest from being throwen against the steering wheel, I was ok.

At any rate I think something like that comes under the heading of - "That's Life."
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Is it evil for a human to kill an ape? A fetus? A cow? An ant? I repeat -

It's a sin to deliberately waste or carelessly cast aside / kill any part of God's creation. I would add that it's a sin to carelessly bring into existence any part of God's creation.
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I just want to understand rexactly what you guys mean when you use the term evil.

I don't believe that for one second.

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak wrote: God does not cause thunder and lightening. A very interesting comment which, of course, is contradicted by your chosen holy book:

He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries. Psalm 135:7 (KJV)

When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. Jeremiah 51:16 (KJV)

Like all of your deluded brethren, you read what you want from the Bible and disregard the rest. Have the read the whole thing lately? It's a hilarious collection of contradictions, absurdities, homophobia, sexism, racism, specieism and, yes, some good stuff too.

I always thought God caused everything except for the exercise of man's supposed free will to disregard Him.

The funny thing about Christians like you is that you don't even know what evil is.

If one of my kids was killed by a lightning bolt (I use this example because it happened to a boy not far from my home last week) or by a sick individual who was abused themself as a child, do you really think one act is evil and the other is not?

If your God exists, he has created a world where tsunamis snatch babies from the mother's arms and millions die of hunger due to natural causes. Are these deaths attributable to the supposed fall of man? If not, maybe your Creator should give it all another kick at the can.

The Atheist Missionary said...

I forgot to respond to your closing: "I don't believe that for one second."

I am an admitted atheist which simply means that I believe the existence of God to be extremely improbable. I have no agenda other than to force those who hold religious beliefs to expose those beliefs to skeptical scrutiny. If I turn out to be wrong and get fried for eternity, then I guess I will have nobody else but myself to blame. I still think 1,000,000,000 years of hell-fire would be sufficient for 70-80 years of earthly doubt but I guess proportionality is a concept unknown to your ever loving God.

You spend alot of time talking about evil and I find it intriguing that you seem inacapable of describing what it is. You talk alot about the Holocaust as being evil as if it was caused by some demonic presence. Of course, that is b.s. The Holocaust was caused by systemic prejudice that resulted in an entire society treating a race of humans as if they were subhuman. Genocides like that happened plenty of times in human history and the only thing striking about the Holocaust is that it was committed by a supposedly modern society using modern technology to commit atrocities.

If you want to define evil as the needless infliction of suffering then I agree that the Holocaust easily satisfies that criteria. However, my point is that a tremendous amount of needless suffering is created by natural means. I don't see anything more intrinsically "evil" about the Holocaust than a lightning bolt killing a child. Both are nasty.

Makarios said...

Mak wrote: God does not cause thunder and lightening. A very interesting comment which, of course, is contradicted by your chosen holy book:

I don’t mean that He isn’t responsible for the hydrodynamics of evaporation and rainfall. I mean God doesn’t grab a lightening bolt and say, “I’m gonna get that little boy that lives next door to TAM.
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Like all of your deluded brethren, you read what you want from the Bible and disregard the rest.

I don’t disregard any of it. Do I understand it all? No, but I don’t disregard any of it.

Do you smoke quie a bit of dope? Just like the aged, you seem to ask the same questions over and over again.
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I always thought God caused everything except for the exercise of man's supposed free will to disregard Him."

You’re in error, once again, because you don’t recognise the difference between causing and allowing. While the result may be the same, these are actually two different actions.
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The funny thing about Christians like you is that you don't even know what evil is."

And you do? I think that calling something that you don't like "evi." severely understates the nature of evil. I’ll stand by the definition that I gave.
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I have no agenda other than to force those who hold religious beliefs to expose those beliefs to skeptical scrutiny.

Good grief man. You haven’t asked me anything or stated anything that I haven’t already asked myself or considered well over three decades ago.
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The Holocaust was caused by systemic prejudice that resulted in an entire society treating a race of humans as if they were subhuman.

Have you ever wondered how it is that the Jewish people still exist as a recognised entity after 10,000years of attempts to wipe them out?

Have you ever wondered about the nation of Israel existing today as an entity - as foretold in the Bible - after it disappeared - as was foretold - 2,000 years ago?