Saturday, June 6, 2009

Nightmare - The Atheist Community's Secret Weapon

In a post titled “Atheists - Censorship and Irony” I spoke of my interactions with a number of atheists. This took place on one of their blogs and I told about how our interaction was terminated by the blog owner. One guy, Author: GMNightmare was one of the guys that I didn’t get a chance to respond to because the post just disappeared. Sooo, I thought I would do so here. The back-story to his comments below is that someone made a statement saying that Christians can’t even describe the God they worship or something close to that. I gave them a description that was about 20 adjectives long and Nightmare, bless him, began with: “This is good fodder. I can play with this for awhile. BRING ON THE PARADOXICAL FLAWS!”

I’m not sure where Nightmare heard that term, but not knowing what it means didn’t stop him from letting loose some interesting thoughts. So, with that, I give you the logic and reasoning of GMNightmare. I’ll begin with his response in total.
“Changeless + personal:
This includes all of your personal things like patience, slow to anger, and all that nonsense under personal. Emotions and personality, are changes of states. If he wasn't angry with you earlier, and now he's angry with you, then something just changed. Simply things like god was pleased with his creation on one point, then he was displeased is a change. Indeed, being pleased with his creation is a change, since before he wasn't pleased with his creation, as there was no creation to be pleased in... see below for more on that.
Omnipresent + Spirit:
Your definition of spirit is weird. Does that mean he doesn't exist in matter, thus no having the ability to be omnipresent? For that matter, omnipresent, once he created the universe, wouldn't it thus mean he had to change to accommodate for his omnipresence?
All powerful + omnipresent:
Does he have the power to not be omnipresent? For that matter, does he have the power to change himself?
Sustainer of the universe + Independent of his creation:
This one is too easy, he can't be independent of his creation if without him the creation ceases to exist. In some way or part, we must be connected if he sustains our existence.
All Powerful + Creator of space:
So he created space huh? Nice one. Do you even know what space is? Nothing. How do you create nothing? Never mind that question, I'll just say it. Nothing, would be the absence of a creation in this situation, thus being he didn't create it.
. I'm done with your silly little games. I want you to do something real quick for me here. Pray to your "All knowing" god and for the answer to the question:
“Can god create an object so heavy that even god cannot lift it?”
Reply only when you have done this. Give the direct answer. Or, if you'd rather not, pray for a correct reply to this request.”
============

Wow! What do you think? This was indeed hard to respond to but not for the reasons that Nightmare imagines. Nevertheless, I’ll give it a try.

Changeless + purposeful:
“So he deliberately created the universe? What change on day came to him, and he suddenly decided, "Hey, today I think I'll create the universe!"

Have you ever heard, “God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow.” OR “All good things come from above, coming down to us from the Father of heavenly lights in whom there is no changing or shifting like shadows.”

No, Nightmare, I’m not quoting Scripture AT you. I’m giving you the context within which the term changeless is used.
God is Love and He is always Love.
God is Just and He is always Just.
God is Fair and He is always Fair.
His CHARACTER does not change.
Your example has nothing to do with the meaning of changeless. As well, God is timeless and prior to the Singularity He existed outside of time, so there was no such thing as “one day He decided . . .”
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“Is that it for purposeful, by the way?”

Every movement of every atom happens according to the purpose of God. Even you were created for God’s purposes.
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“So your saying creating the universe was god's purpose?”

Yes, but notice that no one said that it was God’s ONLY purpose.
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“Please, give more, so I can connect purposeful with all powerful as another flaw.”

What flaw would you be alluding to?
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Changeless + personal:
“This includes all of your personal things like patience, slow to anger, and all that nonsense under personal.”

As it relates to your Creator, Nightmare, "personal" means that He can and does have a relationship with His creation. God is not detached from or disinterested in His creation. If you wanted to you could have a healed relationship with your Creator. As it stands, you HAVE a relationship with your Creator but it’s as His enemy.
==============
“Emotions and personality, are changes of states. If he wasn't angry with you earlier, and now he's angry with you, then something just changed.”

No, it means that the things that cause Him to be angry with you today will also cause Him to be angry with you in twenty years. For example, God’s reaction to you denying His existence and rejecting His influence in your life today will be exactly the same reaction He will have when you stand before Him on judgement day. You can count on it. It will not change.
===========
“Simply things like god was pleased with his creation on one point, then he was displeased is a change. Indeed, being pleased with his creation is a change, since before he wasn't pleased with his creation, as there was no creation to be pleased in... see below for more on that.

Ah, I’m beginning to understand what you’re saying. In your mind, something that is changeless is like a zombie or automaton or a machine perhaps.
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Omnipresent + Spirit:
Your definition of spirit is weird. Does that mean he doesn't exist in matter, thus no having the ability to be omnipresent? For that matter, omnipresent, once he created the universe, wouldn't it thus mean he had to change to accommodate for his omnipresence?”

What? Just how stoned were you when you wrote this?
============
All powerful + omnipresent:
Does he have the power to not be omnipresent? For that matter, does he have the power to change himself?”

Does this mean can He do something incoherent or illogical? No, Creator God is a God of truth and order. To do what you suggest WOULD require a change of character, to one more like your own.
============
Sustainer of the universe + Independent of his creation:
This one is too easy, he can't be independent of his creation if without him the creation ceases to exist. In some way or part, we must be connected if he sustains our existence.”

Imagine a painter and a painting as she takes her painting to an art show, guarding it and sustaining it from damage along the way.
=============
All Powerful + Creator of space:
“So he created space huh? Nice one. Do you even know what space is? Nothing. How do you create nothing? Never mind that question, I'll just say it. Nothing, would be the absence of a creation in this situation, thus being he didn't create it.”

My goodness that’s a profoundly ignorant statement. Space is NOT nothing. Even a vacuum is not nothing.
============
“I'm done with your silly little games. I want you to do something real quick for me here. Pray to your "All knowing" god and for the answer to the question: “Can god create an object so heavy that even god cannot lift it?” Reply only when you have done this. Give the direct answer. Or, if you'd rather not, pray for a correct reply to this request.”

MY silly little games! Oh dear. Your question is like wondering whether, If there was a round square, would its area would equal the square of one of its sides?
What you imagine to be a profound question Nightmare is actually logically incoherent. Quite like yourself actually.

1 comment:

The Atheist Missionary said...

Makarios wrote: God is Love and He is always Love.
God is Just and He is always Just.
God is Fair and He is always Fair.
His CHARACTER does not change.


If God is fair, just and love, why does he allow so much suffering to exist in the world and, more to the point, why does he allow so much suffering? Is he a masochist?

You also wrote: Every movement of every atom happens according to the purpose of God.

Please explain what you mean by that sentence. Are you suggesting that everything that happens (i.e. both human actions and natural events) is divinely predestined?