Sunday, June 28, 2009

Atheist Women Reject Kindness

Isn't it weird how atheist women will shore up their beliefs on some obscure verses in the Bible; verses whose meaning, if twisted enough makes rejecting God easier? And while they're clinging to those obscure verses, they'll ignore verses that are perfectly clear on how women should be treated with respect and dignity.

Isn’t it interesting that atheist women would rather be against kindness than agree with what the Bible says in how they should be treated? That’s seems to be an obvious conclusion when I hear atheists attempt to document the Bible’s “unjust” attitude toward women. Just how bitter and bigoted does one have to be to rather have harsh treatment than agree with the Bible? Before I begin, as a point of interest, while it’s true that women, in six different places in the Bible are told to submit to their husbands, in nine places men are told to submit to their wives with the added admonishment for men to be ready to die for their wives. In fact men, as the spiritual leaders of the home, are supposed to take the lead in demonstrating submission to their wives and servant leadership for their wives. NO WHERE does the Bible tell women to obey their husbands.

In the second part addressing the issue of atheist women railing against what they believe the Bible teaches, I give you the following.
James 3:17 - Now the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy.

Gee, that sounds to me as though a person like that would make a pretty good husband. Of course, you can’t judge Christian directives by just one verse. How about his one.

1st Peter 5:5 - Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another because God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
This is talking about how young men should treat women in general.

Colossians 3:12,13 - Therefore, as God’s chosen people, Holy, and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another and forgive as the Lord forgave you.”

Hmm. I wonder what kind of women would hate a man who treats them like that.

These next two verses deal with the issue of a double standard for men.
1st Timothy 3:2 - Now an overseer must be . . . the husband of but one wife
Titus 1:2 - An elder must be . . . the husband of but one wife

What these verses mean is that the husband must be faithful to his wife. He is not to lust after another woman, nor leave his wife for another woman. The writer allows for no double standard where the man can be sexually immoral but the woman must be faithful.

1st Corinthians 7:3,4 - The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.

This verse does not allow for a double standard where the man is deserving of special treatment, but not the woman. This verse also upholds the importance of sex in a marriage. This is relevant today in a world where the demands of kids, work, work and more work make finding time and energy for sex a real issue in a large number of marriages.

Ephesians 5:25, 28, 33 - Husbands love your wives, just as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies . . . Each one of you must love his wife as he loves himself.

Colossians 3:19 - Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Hmm, no directives for husbands to have dominion over or to rule over their wives so far. We better check further.

A guy named Matthew, who was a follower of Jesus and who witnessed the death and resurrection of Jesus recorded many of Jesus teachings. Some are listed below:
. Treat women with respect instead of just sexual objects
. Forgive your wife as you have been forgiven by your Heavenly Father
. Don’t judge your wife in a hypocritical manner
. Don’t forgive your wife when she sins against you only seven times, but every time.
. Love your wife as you already love yourself
. Love your wife even if she is your enemy, do good to your wife even if she hates you, bless your wife even if she curses you, pray for your wife, even if she mistreats you. If she strikes you on one cheek, turn to her the other also. Be merciful to your wife just as your Father is merciful.
. Do not judge your wife. Do not condemn your wife.
. Do for your wife the kind of things you would like her to do for you.
. Love your wife. As I have loved you, so you must love your wife.

The following is from the letters of a guy named Peter. He was a follower of Jesus and an eyewitness to His death and resurrection. He was killed because he wouldn’t deny that His Lord and Saviour had risen from the dead.
. Rid yourselves of all malice and slander of every kind toward your wife.
. It is God’s will that by doing good to your wife, you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
. Show proper respect to your wife.
. Husbands, be considerate as you live with your wives and treat them with respect.
. Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult but with blessing because to this you were called.
. Whoever would love life must seek peace with their wives and pursue it.
. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

The following is from the letters of a guy named John. He too was a follower of Jesus and an eyewitness to His death and resurrection. He was killed because he wouldn’t deny that His Lord and Saviour had risen from the dead.
. Love one another
. Let us not love with words but with actions.
. Whoever does not love his wife does not know God because God is love.
. Whoever loves God must also love his wife.
. [Jesus'] command is that you walk in love.

The following is from the letters of a guy named James. He too was a follower of Jesus and an eyewitness to His death and resurrection. James was one of Jesus’ brothers who became a leader in the early Church. He was killed because he wouldn’t deny that His Lord and Saviour had risen from the dead.
. The wisdom that comes from Jesus is peace-loving, considerate, full of mercy.. Peacemakers who sow peace in their marriages, raise a harvest of righteousness.
. Do not slander your wife’s name.
. Love your wife as you already love yourself.
. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue when talking to his wife, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
. Everyone should be slow to become angry for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.

The following is from the letters of a guy named Paul. He too was a follower of Jesus. His experience with the risen Jesus caused him to turn from his violent, Hitchens’ like hatred of Christians and become the single greatest cause for the Gospel of Jesus being transported to Europe. He was killed because he wouldn’t deny that His Lord and Saviour had risen from the dead.
. Make sure that you never pay back your wife wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other.
. Do not lie to each other
. In Christ everyone is equal, none better than another. You are not better than your wife.
. Therefore as God’s chosen people, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive your wife just as the Lord forgave you.
. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
. Let your conversation toward your wife be always full of grace.
. This is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless in your relationship with your wives.
. Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
. Each one of you must love his wife
. In your anger do not sin against your wives for anger gives the devil a foothold.
. Be completely humble and gentle with your wives; bearing with one another in love.
. Love your wife as yourself. If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrong. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
. A husband must not divorce his wife.
. You, then, why do you judge your wife? Or why do you look down on her? For we all stand before God’s judgment seat.
. Do not repay your wife evil for evil.
. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with your wives.
. Do not take revenge, my friends.
. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

The next verse talks about the respect with which men should view women in general.
1st Timothy 5:2 Treat older women as your mothers, and younger women as your sisters, with absolute purity.
Most atheist men view seeing women as sexual objects as one of the keys to “normal” happiness. However, this verse is saying, don’t see women as objects to be used and abused. See women as human beings worthy of respect and dignity. The Bible leaves no doubt that men should see women as absolute equals to men. It does not look down on them. It does not belittle them. In fact, and this is as true today as it has always been, women with Christian husbands (in the full meaning of the term) have always been treated far better than women in the surrounding culture that are not Christians nor married to Christian husbands.

But the Bible doesn’t stop there. These verses make no distinction between men and women. This is light-years from how women are, according to community standards, treated in non Christian cultures.

Romans 12:9-21 - Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil, cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in love. Honour women above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervour serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s women who are in need. Practice hospitality toward women. Bless women who persecute you/ bless and not curse. Rejoice with those women who rejoice, mourn with those women who mourn. Live in harmony with all women. Do not be conceited. Do not repay any woman evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of all women. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live in peace with all women. Do not take revenge, my friends.

Romans 13:1,2 - Everyone must submit himself to women in governing authority, for there is no woman in authority except she who God has established. The women in authority have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against a woman in authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.”

Remember, Scripture does not give any indication that women are not to hold positions of power and authority outside the church.

1st Corinthians 1:4,10 - I always thank God for you women because of His grace given you in Christ Jesus. I appeal to you, sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Galatians 5:13 - You, my sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature, rather serve all women in love.

Galatians 6:10 - Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to all women, for we are all members of one body. Do not let any unwholesome talk about women come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to the needs of all women, that it may benefit those women who listen. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger toward women, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to all women, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

1st Peter 3:7 - Husbands be considerate as you live with your wives and treat them with respect. Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing.

Ah gee. It looks like atheists are completely and totally wrong, once again. The Bible teaches that men are to have absolute and total respect for their wives. In fact men, as the spiritual leaders of the home, are supposed to take the lead in demonstrating submission to and servant leadership for their wives.

But what about that verse in Genesis; the one about “Man will have dominion over you?”

In Genesis 2:18, God is recorded as saying that he will make a “Helper” for Adam. People who don’t understand God and who hate anything to do with Him use this as proof that under God’s direction, husbands are to have control over or have dominion over their wives. What they don’t understand is that the word that is used for “helper” or “helpmate” in this verse is the very same word that is used in the Bible to describe God as OUR helper. This helper, as God calls her is NOT a one down position. Man and woman were created equal in value. However, they were created with different roles. Later, after all of Creation had fallen under the curse of sin we have the verse in question, Chapter 3:16. It reads, “You desire will be for your husband, and he will have dominion over you.” As we can see from the verses above, this verse is not a declaration or command or directive as to how men are to act toward their wives specifically or to women in general. It is a statement of fact, a fact that we have seen played out down through history. Women have always desired to have the lives of men. Men on the other hand have, by and large, kept women from attaining the equal standing that God created them to have. This is not because of God but because of sin.

So what has this got to do with Jesus and Christianity? We, all of us, are constantly being drawn to into the vortex of popular culture. It takes enormous strength to counter our culture. This was no different in Old Testament times. In comparison to our “modern” times, the rules and regulations concerning the Israelites seem crude and barbaric. However, they are and were revolutionary in comparison with the cultures and societies that surrounded God’s people. In comparison with their pagan neighbours, Israelite women were truly liberated. Not compared to now, but compared to then. When Jesus came along, he changed that again by about 1000%. He touched women. He spoke to them as equals. They were leaders and people of influence in His ministry. The New Testament, which Jesus said describes our behaviour as the Old Testament Law intended them to be, was not just radical for it’s time. The behaviours outlined as it pertains to husbands and wives is as relevant today and as radical today was it was in first century Palestine. In fact, some of the most egregious behaviours that we see today, regarding how men treat women can be found in the atheistic, Hip Hop music seen on tv. These singers, both male and female, whose lives demonstrate an absolute disregard for God and His commands belittle, demean, and degrade women to as great an extent as any patriarchal society that has ever existed. This attitude is seen in the sex trade. It’s seen in commerce. It’s seen in some religions. Any attitude that demeans women is an “against God” attitude.

Isn’t it interesting that women, some women, atheist women would rather be against kindness than agree with the Bible? That’s seems to be an obvious conclusion when I hear atheists attempt to document the Bible’s “unjust” attitude toward women. Just how bitter and bigoted does one have to be to push away the attitudes described above? As a point of interest, while women, in six different places in the Bible are in fact told to submit to their husbands, in nine places men are told to submit to their wives with the added admonishment for men to be ready to die for their wives. In fact men, as the spiritual leaders of the home, are supposed to take the lead in demonstrating submission to their wives and servant leadership for their wives. NO WHERE does the Bible tell women to obey their husbands.

18 comments:

uzza said...

"Isn't it weird how athesit women will base their beiefs on some obscure verses in the Bible"
No, because they don't. There might be some point to the rest of this post if you gave a single example of an atheist who does this.

You very often make a statement and follow it up with a completely unrelated thought, like this:
“1st Peter 5:5 ... This is talking about how young men should treat women in general.”
It's not. It is talking about young men and their elders not women. See, in order to be talking about something, you have to actually mention it. You'd be on safer ground to say this is talking about how young christian men should relate to pagans, or alligators. It would be enlightening if you explain the connection you imagine exists between these things.

Thesauros said...

Are you suggesting that women are excluded in the intent of these verses?

Of course not. In response to posts and comments by atheist women about how the Bible encourages the subjugation of women, I've made the subject in these verses to be woman, women, sisters etc.

uzza said...

So Peter, the author, made the subject "those who are older", and you made the subject "women".

No, I'm not suggesting that women are excluded, I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious fact that women are not what he's talking about.

You've gone from illogical to dishonest.

Thesauros said...

Whatever.

Thesauros said...

I clicked too soon.

So are you too, going to focus in on one verse and ignore the dozens of others that say what you don't want to hear? Does that seem logical and reasonable to you? Do you cope like that in other areas of your life?

uzza said...

Very reasonable. You present a very implausible hypothesis, which nevertheless sounded interesting, so I started to read your supporting arguments. The first one, (James) I ignored because it seemed irrelevant, but the next one (Peter) is not only unrelated, but you make a statement about it that is patently untrue.

Skimming through the rest I noted several such logical flaws, which convinced me the huge long post is not worth reading. I'm left baffled though as to the thought process involved. I charitably assumed you see some connection between these two statements, which prompted you to offer this as an example. When asked for an explanation, you admit to dishonesty, and try to change the subject. Reasonably then, I conclude that if you lie about one point, you do about others, and the post is worthless. All you had to do is explain your example; do you cope like that in other areas of your life?

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak wrote: Isn't it weird how atheist women will shore up their beliefs on some obscure verses in the Bible; verses whose meaning, if twisted enough makes rejecting God easier? And while they're clinging to those obscure verses, they'll ignore verses that are perfectly clear on how women should be treated with respect and dignity.

You had to see this coming:

Isn't it weird how Christians shore up their beliefs from the Bible? And while they're clinging to the portions of the Bible that advocate good ethical conduct, they'll ignore verses that are perfectly clear on promoting homophobia, racism, infanticide and genocide.

Thesauros said...

uzza - (James) I ignored because it seemed irrelevant,"

This verse seems irrelevant to the topic of women being treated with respect? Look, just because you are unable to think in the abstract or transfer information from one point to another does not make that information irrelevant or in error.

uzza said...

"Show me"

1st Peter 3:7 - Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing.

This is talking about homophobia, racism, infanticide and genocide.

LOL

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak:

957 instances of cruelty and violence in the Bible: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

33 references to intolerance of homosexuality: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

The Bible is very interested in the races of people. The two favorite races are Israel (37 times) and Egypt (only once). On the other hand, the Bible sorts out other races like the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites as inferior. However, the Bible gives no idea about the reason to classify those races like dirt.

Infanticide in Hosea 13:16 (KJV) - Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Your Bible is a sick book my friend.

Thesauros said...

"957 instances of cruelty and violence in the Bible:"

And you can get that in two months of listening to the News. It's a Book about humanity's failings. Why should horrific violence surprise you?
===========

33 references to intolerance of homosexuality:

So? Your creator takes the family unit very, VERY seriously. Did you know that just 50 years ago society's attitude toward adultery was as intense as it is today toward sex with children? I find that scary.

Do you find it at all interesting that the Bible says that two things are going to come together. A mass movement of those who deny the existence of God AND a mass acceptance of homosexuality. How does it feel to be making prophecy come true?
=============

"the Bible gives no idea about the reason to classify those races like dirt."

Are you kidding me? How dull are you? Not only were these nations warring against God's chosen race, a race through which He was going to bring salvation to the whole world, these nations were so corrupt, so vile, so evil that it was common, accepted practice to not only subjugate thousands of women to work as temple prostitutes, they also offerred their children as living burnt sacrifices to their gods!!! How could you not know that? I don't believe you didn't know that. Which means you are deliberately trying to mislead any readers who are listening in. I hope that's not true but what else am I to think?
==========

Infanticide in Hosea 13:16 (KJV) -

Describing what is going to happen is not the same as prescribing it to happen. You've not any seen combat action I guess? Horrible things happen during combat. Otherwise good men are forced to do despicable things. Other than making the offer of peace before engagment, there were no rules of engagement back then.

Human beings are sick my friend.

Semi-sage said...

Mak - God commanded them to slaughter every man woman and child. Plus the animals for good measure. It wasn't war, combat or anything like that. God clearly gives the orders to kill babies. Read, learn and try(probably impossible) to comprehend your bible.

Thesauros said...

I thought you said that the Bible wasn't true; that we couldn't believe anything that it says.

You atheists sure get excited about stuff you say you don't believe.

The Atheist Missionary said...

Mak, I am staggered by your willingness to ignore the nastiness of the Bible. I refuse to believe that you can be so wilfully blind.

Thesauros said...

I'm not ignoring any of it. Your Creator is either going to be your best friend or your worst enemy.

Choose today whom you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord of lords and the King of kings.

Good luck doofus.

Semi-sage said...

I do not believe. You do. You claim to know your bible. I showed you God commanded men to kill babies.

Your response is "I thought you said that the Bible wasn't true; that we couldn't believe anything that it says." So because I know your bible better than you. I am not to comment on it? I do not have to believe in your silly deity to know what he says he did. Knowing the bible is like knowing mythology. Instead of learning what ancient Greeks said about their gods. I am learning what modern humans from a lower rung of the evolutionary ladder think about their God. What their God says he did.

So are you going to admit your God, if he was true(NOT!)Ordered the murder of helpless babies. Remember the fucker is omniscient. He knows they are innocent babies. He knows his people will bash their heads on rocks. As babies born before the time of Jesus, this omniscient being knew the babies couldn't have Jesus as a personal savior. They couldn't accept him. They were babies. Your made up God admits to murdering babies. You worship him. You got morals from him? Are you ready to start questioning how stupid you have been for the last 28 years?

Repeat after me. There is no god. There is no god. I am responsible for my own life. I can be a good person without the threat of hell. There is no god.

Say that every hour for the next 4 weeks, and you should be cured of the god virus. lol

Thesauros said...

I can see why you like that atheist camel guy. You two really are a couple of humps.

Semi-sage said...

Mak - Ah. Ya went to my blog. lol Do you know Hump? Really you should read some of my blog. Expand your mind. Let go of your bible. Be free. lol