Saturday, October 18, 2008

Jesus never claimed to be God???

That’s what a blog said the other day. Sheesh, you can just say any old thing can’t you? Well, I feel compelled to point out the following:

Jesus claimed to be the great I AM -
. “I am the Good Shepherd.” Jn.10:11 - But the Old Testament says that Yahweh is our Shepherd
. “I am the Judge of all men.” Matt.25:31ff Jn.5:27ff - But the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the Judge of all nations.
. “Father, glorify me, in your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began,” Jn.17:5 - But in the Old Testament Yahweh says that He will not give His glory to anyone except Himself.
. “I Am the Bridegroom,” Matt 25:1 - But the Old Testament uses this term only for Yahweh
. “I am the first and the last,” Rev.1:17 - But this is the exact term that Yahweh uses of Himself in the Old Testament.
. “I am the light of the world,” But the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the light of the world.
. “Before Abraham was, I AM,” But the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the great I AM.

The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

Jesus claimed to be equal with God:
. “Son, your sins are forgiven.”Mk. 2:5ff - But the Old Testament says that only God can forgive our sins.
. “I have the power to raise the dead and to judge them also.” Jn5:25-29 “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes,” Jn 5:21 - But the Old Testament says that only God can give life and raise from the dead.
. “He who does not honour Me does not honour the Father,” Jn. 5:23 - But the Old Testament says that only God should be honoured.

The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

Jesus claimed to be Messiah - God
. Isaiah says of the coming Messiah, [He will be] “Mighty God, the everlasting Father.”
. Jesus says that prophecies from the Old Testament concerning Messiah were referring to Him and to Him alone.
. “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” Jesus answered, “I Am.” The High Priest tore his robes and said, “What need of we for further proof. You have heard Him say He is God.”

The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

Jesus claimed to be worthy of worship:
. Even though both the Old and the New Testaments of the Bible forbid the worship of anyone or anything but Creator God, Jesus allowed people to worship Him.
-In Matt. 8:2it was a leper whom Jesus had healed.
-In Matt. 9:18 it was a rich ruler.
-In Jn. 9:38 it was someone who Jesus healed of blindness.
-In Matt. 14:33 it was His closest followers after He had done what only God could do - calm a storm.
-In Matt. 15:25 Jesus allowed a Canaanite women to worship Him as did the mother of James and John which is recorded in Matt. 20:20
-In Mk. 5:6 A man who’d just be freed from a legion of demons worshipped Jesus.

In all these cases Jesus allowed people to worship Him and to call Him God as though it was His due. Jesus considered Himself to be God Incarnate and
The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

Jesus claimed that His authority was equal to that of God:
. One of the most famous portions of the historical record of Jesus’ ministry is Jesus’ promises to the people as found in the Sermon on the Mount and in His, “You have heard it said . . . but I say,” statements. He said that He was the Promise and the Authority and the people recognised that He spoke with authority, ‘Not as their teachers who quoted other authorities.’ Jesus told His followers that by His authority He was sending them out to tell others about God’s love as they had seen that love demonstrated through Him. Jesus pointed out that it was those who reject what He taught that would be condemned to eternal life in the total absence of God’s love. "He who rejects me rejects the Father." Clearly He taught that He was more than just a man.

The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

Jesus claimed that people could and should Pray “in His name:”
. “Whatever you ask in My Name, I will do it.” Jn.14:13.
. Jesus explained what it meant to be asking for something “In Jesus’ name” when He said, “If you abide (walk, talk, live and exist in an ever increasingly intimate relationship with Jesus) in Me I will give you want you want.” Jn.15:7.
. “No one comes to the Father but through Me. I and the Father are one.” We are encouraged to pray to God, but also to Jesus who is God.

The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

. The people who knew Jesus best, both His friends and His enemies recognised Jesus’ claims to be Yahweh. He demonstrated this fact by the things that He did. At one point Jesus said, “You don’t have to believe that I Am God by what I say, but you should believe that I Am God by what I do.” Why? Because the things that He was doing were not possible via natural means. They were supernatural. He fulfilled prophecy, He led a sinless life, He performed miraculous deeds, the greatest of which was His resurrection from the dead.

The religious leaders wanted Jesus to be killed because they clearly heard Him claim to be God.

As far as I can see, there can be only two reasons for making a statement like, “Jesus never claimed to be God.”
First, the writer suffers from profound ignorance regarding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Second, the writer is a liar.

There may be other reasons that I’m not aware of but the conclusion is the same, the writer is wrong at every level.


Adam Pastor said...

Greetings Makarios

You stated:
"As far as I can see, there can be only two reasons for making a statement like, “Jesus never claimed to be God.”
First, the writer suffers from profound ignorance regarding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Second, the writer is a liar.

There may be other reasons that I’m not aware of but the conclusion is the same, the writer is wrong at every level."

Makarios, it appears that you're not aware of the myriad of reasons why someone reading the Bible would say that
“Jesus never claimed to be God.”

Hmmm! Where does one begin?
The easiest one being, that there isn't any verse in Scripture, where you will find
Jesus the Messiah claiming to be
Almighty GOD! No Not One!!

In all the verses that you listed you did not show one. Why? Because there isn't one? Why?
Because Jesus never claimed to be
Almighty GOD!!

Now let's go through some of your points:

a) Jesus the Messiah, the Son of man, is GOD's ultimate representative.
As such, GOD hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [John 5.22]
(John 5:27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Hence, Jesus is the Judge of all men, because Almighty GOD ...
(Acts 17:31) ... hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Almighty GOD raised him from the dead!

Which leads me to my next point.

The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.
GOD Almighty alone is immortal.
[1 Tim 6.16]
Immortality means one cannot die &
Immortality is His alone to grant.

So, although both the Father & the Son share titles such as "Shepherd, First & Last", etc;
this alone shows a clear distinction.
Jesus, the ONE GOD's Son, died for our sins, hence,
Jesus is NOT Almighty GOD!

b) Look at the context of Isaiah's verses concerning GOD not giving His glory.
And then compare (John 17:22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
that they may be one, even as we are one:

Does that then make the disciples, GOD!!

Note, that they may be ONE even as the Father and the Son are ONE!
(See also John 17.11,21; cp. John 10.30)
Again, does that then make the disciples, GOD!!
Also, (Mat 5:14) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Yet, Jesus is the light of the world!!
Does that then, make his disciples, Jesus or GOD?

NO! Of course not.
Sharing titles as representatives
(i.e. the disciples represent Christ, Christ represents GOD; cp. John 17.18)
does not make one GOD!!
The same goes for Jesus Christ!

c) Concerning "I AM", see Is Jesus the "I AM?"

d) The religious leaders accused Jesus falsely many times.
They did not have his word in them
[John 8.37], they neither knew him nor his Father [8,19], etc.
It is not a good idea to build one's theology on Jesus' accusers; who did NOT believe him to be their Messiah!!
John records their false accusations for our edification; you weren't meant to side with them!!
Concerning Mark 2:5ff ... read (Mark 2:12) And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
(Mat 9:8) But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

Get it? The people glorified the ONE GOD for giving such authority (in this case, to forgive sins on GOD's behalf) to men i.e. the man Jesus of Nazareth.
They recognized that Jesus possessed GOD-given authority, to do what he did; and therefore glorified his GOD & their GOD, in this regard.
The people weren't thinking that Jesus himself was GOD!?!?
See also Jesus Forgave Sins

When accused of making himself equal to GOD; what did Jesus say? He retorted by saying:
(John 5:19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. ... etc
"Can do nothing of himself" are not the words of equality!

e) Jesus indeed claimed to be the Messiah. Do you know what that means?
It means you are
"The Anointed One OF GOD"
[Luke 2.26, 9.20; Acts 4.26, Rev 11.15]
Every Jew knows that. Therefore, the Anointed One isn't himself GOD!!
Rather, he is YAHWEH's Anointed One, GOD's Christ!! GOD's Appointed King
[John 1.49]
Therefore, claiming Messiahship,
isn't claiming to be Almighty GOD!?!

Look again, at the same question: "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?"

Get it? Are you the Messiah, the Son of the ONE GOD??
Every Jew of Christ's era, knew that to claim to be the Messiah, is to claim to be GOD's Son, GOD's Appointed, Foreordained King of Psalm Chapter 2; who will be seated at the ONE GOD's right hand according to Psalm 110.1; and be the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven according to Dan 7.13-14.

These terms are synonymous.
And that is exactly who Jesus claimed to be!! That Son of GOD. That Son of man!
Now, because the High Priest & Co., didn't believe on him, they accused Jesus of blasphemy i.e. being a false claimant, a false messiah, a false prophet.
[Yet another false accusation. Compare:
(John 10:36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest;
because I said, I am the Son of God?]

Read the verses concerning Jesus before the Sanhedrin again.
Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the Son of
the ONE GOD [i.e. the Blessed, Power];

and the Son of man, who will be
at GOD's right hand.
[Matt 26.63-64, Mark 14:61-62,
Luke 22.67-70]
All synonyms meaning the very same thing ... the promised Messiah.

He never claimed to be himself, GOD!!

Stop reading into verses, things which are not there!!
(Also in regards to Isaiah 9.6, see for example, Concerning Isaiah 9:6)

f) Jesus was indeed worshiped.
However, one needs to understand what "worship" in that context meant in the times of Jesus.
Today, we see the word "worship" and think one thing: GOD Almighty alone is worshiped!
Not so, in Jesus' time.
The word "worship"
[Heb. shachah; Grk. proskuneo]
had an alternative meaning when used in regards to men, such as prophets, kings & men of GOD.
(All these terms apply to Jesus of Nazareth!)
To find out what I mean, please read these articles:

The Worship of Christ

Defining the Term "Worship"

g) As concerning the authority in which Jesus spoke:

(John 7:16-18) Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

(John 12:48-50) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

(John 8:26-27) I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

(John 14:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

h) Concerning prayer ...

(John 16:23) And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Look again at the prayers of the apostles. They always prayed to the ONE GOD, yes, in the name of Jesus!
That doesn't make Jesus' GOD!?! Rather, that makes Jesus, GOD's vindicated, glorified, servant who through his total obedience & sacrifice; has brought about mankind's redemption; therefore, whatsoever you ask the Father in His Son's name, the Father will do it i.e. for Christ' sake; hence:

Acts of the Apostles 4 [NASB]

24. And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said,
25. who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,


27. "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28. to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
29. "And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence,
30. while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus."

Now come on, be honest? Is this a prayer to Jesus? And is Jesus referred to in this prayer as if he is himself, GOD???
No! Jesus (like David) is GOD's servant!!
(cp. Isa 42.1, Matt 12.18)
Even in his glorified, immortalized position.

So prayers ought to be offered to the ONE GOD in the name of His Son and holy Servant,
Jesus the Messiah our Lord.

This is the apostolic practice throughout the NT.

Makarios, I believe I have said enough for you to be Berean and look into the things stated here. Also I highly recommend this video,
The Human Jesus

Take a couple of hours to watch it; and prayerfully it will aid you in your quest for truth.

Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor

Makarios said...

Your comments are so ridiculous that I'm not going to comment further, other than to say:

If the religious leaders of Jesus’ day had been raised in the same cult as you, Jesus would have been able to die of old age. Instead they clearly heard and recognised His claims to be Creator God and for that they had Him killed.

On the other hand, I guess Jesus had only Himself to blame. If He didn't want people thinking that He was God:
- He shouldn’t have claimed to be omniscient (Matt. (9:4),
- He shouldn't have claimed to be omnipotent (Matt. 28:18) and
- He shouldn't have claimd to be omnipresent Matt.28:20).
And of course He shouldn’t have ever done things that only God can do like forgiving sins (Mark 2:1-12)raising the dead (John 12:9) creating the universe (John 1:3) sustaining the universe Col. 1:17) and judging you and I on whether or not we bend our knee in humble submission to Him as Lord, Saviour and Creator, (John 5:27).

Now, the religious leaders of that day weren’t able to spend three very intense years being taught by Jesus so they weren’t able to conclude, as could His closest followers, that “The Word (Jesus) was God.” (John 1:1).

. The religious leaders of the day heard Jesus proclaiming Himself to be God.
. Jesus’ followers heard Jesus proclaiming Himself to be God.
. Jesus’ converts today numbering two billion strong, recognise Jesus to be God.

Of course unlike you, none of us have been raised up in a cult that takes literal translations of Scripture to absurd degrees.

Georg Löding said...

Even if Jesus would not have claimed to be 'God' which he did, it is obvious that he is:

John 1:1 "is god"
John 1:18 "begotten god"
Isaiah 9:6 אֲבִיעַד Father-Eternal

But over all claimed can be everything
But he proofed what he claimed for he resurrected from the dead as he said: "I give my life and I take it back."